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Hello all. As you may have, or may not have, seen on a prior thread, I am sort of Jewish, sort of something else crossing between agnostic and atheist, however I am still pressured by family members to do things such as having TWO seders (more on this later, yes my opinion on things does not matter because Judaism is all about "tradition", and my family members are appalled I am not continuing this "tradition" on even if it don't match up with how I feel whatsoever). Another note, this family is a mixture of Orthodox and Reform.
Okay, on to my story, and questions. In my family not attending as seder is up there with murder for the worst things you could possibly do in my family. So, begrudgingly I go along. First off, EVERYTHING has to be totally kosher in my family seder (in the past family members have covered tables!) and everything must be cooked "in a kosher kitchen". What really has me thinking, though, if why does all of this happen. I get it with bread, it never had a chance to rise so now, to remember them, we eat matzah. However, the rest seems like a bunch of balony. What does keeping kosher have anything to do with this? I get it, pasta and things of that sort have some common ingredients with bread, but do you don't think the unlevened bread back then did not have any of these ingredients? I don't think the Jews back then were cooking in "kosher kitchens". It just seems like a statement of trying to look "Jewish", then any actual meaning.
In regards to the second seder, why? Is it because we have to celebrate on US and Egyptian time? That is the only thing I can think of, and even that does not seem plausible for me. It should be Egyptian time or no time if this was the case. We literally read the same story all over again during the second seder. It is ridiculous.
To sum up, I just want some answers to these questions. Some actual answers that aren't bunch of bull. Yes, I wish I could just skip passover forever, but I am binded to it by family obligations. Thanks! David.
Hello all. As you may have, or may not have, seen on a prior thread, I am sort of Jewish, sort of something else crossing between agnostic and atheist, however I am still pressured by family members to do things such as having TWO seders (more on this later, yes my opinion on things does not matter because Judaism is all about "tradition", and my family members are appalled I am not continuing this "tradition" on even if it don't match up with how I feel whatsoever). Another note, this family is a mixture of Orthodox and Reform.
Okay, on to my story, and questions. In my family not attending as seder is up there with murder for the worst things you could possibly do in my family. So, begrudgingly I go along. First off, EVERYTHING has to be totally kosher in my family seder (in the past family members have covered tables!) and everything must be cooked "in a kosher kitchen". What really has me thinking, though, if why does all of this happen. I get it with bread, it never had a chance to rise so now, to remember them, we eat matzah. However, the rest seems like a bunch of balony. What does keeping kosher have anything to do with this? I get it, pasta and things of that sort have some common ingredients with bread, but do you don't think the unlevened bread back then did not have any of these ingredients? I don't think the Jews back then were cooking in "kosher kitchens". It just seems like a statement of trying to look "Jewish", then any actual meaning.
In regards to the second seder, why? Is it because we have to celebrate on US and Egyptian time? That is the only thing I can think of, and even that does not seem plausible for me. It should be Egyptian time or no time if this was the case. We literally read the same story all over again during the second seder. It is ridiculous.
To sum up, I just want some answers to these questions. Some actual answers that aren't bunch of bull. Yes, I wish I could just skip passover forever, but I am binded to it by family obligations. Thanks! David.
Hi David. Seems to me the best thing for you to do is ASK your family! They might be pleased that you show an interest in understanding these customs I know it all sounds/seems "ridiculous" to you (and maybe others who aren't Jewish) but since it does have meaning to them, why not let THEM explain the meaning it holds for them?
Hi David. Seems to me the best thing for you to do is ASK your family! They might be pleased that you show an interest in understanding these customs I know it all sounds/seems "ridiculous" to you (and others who aren't Jewish) but since it does have meaning to them, why not let THEM explain the meaning it holds for them?
It's not all of my family members, but rather the big, "senior", family members who are the cause of this. Another family member tried to talk to them, but nothing got through and all it did was lead to a fight. As this family member said of it afterwards, "Ignorance is bliss" for them. But, for me that isn't acceptable. I shouldn't be pressured by them for something described as "ignorance". And outside of religion, these family members are totally awesome, but when it comes to religion, they are unbearable.
So that is why I come to you all, because I don't understand it, and they are of zero help and are totally cloe-minded.
It's not all of my family members, but rather the big, "senior", family members who are the cause of this. Another family member tried to talk to them, but nothing got through and all it did was lead to a fight. As this family member said of it afterwards, "Ignorance is bliss" for them. But, for me that isn't acceptable. I shouldn't be pressured by them for something described as "ignorance". And outside of religion, these family members are totally awesome, but when it comes to religion, they are unbearable.
So that is why I come to you all, because I don't understand it, and they are of zero help and are totally cloe-minded.
Well, I'm not Jewish, so I won't be as much help to you as a Jew, but I can tell you what my understanding is okay?
First of all, this is an old tradition (the 2 Seders) that dates back to ancient times and had something to do with the Jews wanting to be extra sure the Seder had been celebrated on the proper day - the day of the New Moon.
Apparently, Jews were/are supposed to observe all the same calendar dates but getting the word out in ancient times about the exact day something was going to be celebrated was a bit problematic. By the 19th century this wasn't an issue any longer and the Reform movement basically did away with the second Seder celebration requirement. By then though this was an established tradition, so Orthodox Jews kept doing it this way.
Since your family is a mix of Reform and Orthodox, I'm guessing your elders are clinging to the older generations family traditions .
Well, I'm not Jewish, so I won't be as much help to you as a Jew, but I can tell you what my understanding is okay?
First of all, this is an old tradition (the 2 Seders) that dates back to ancient times and had something to do with the Jews wanting to be extra sure the Seder had been celebrated on the proper day - the day of the New Moon.
Apparently, Jews were/are supposed to observe all the same calendar dates but getting the word out in ancient times about the exact day something was going to be celebrated was a bit problematic. By the 19th century this wasn't an issue any longer and the Reform movement basically did away with the second Seder celebration requirement. By then though this was an established tradition, so Orthodox Jews kept doing it this way.
Since your family is a mix of Reform and Orthodox, I'm guessing your elders are clinging to the older generations family traditions .
Alright, thank you. Although I still don't agree with it (if we have a date, we have a date, no need to cling to "tradition" any longer, just a waste of time), but I really do appreciate your answer to that question.
Alright, thank you. Although I still don't agree with it (if we have a date, we have a date, no need to cling to "tradition" any longer, just a waste of time), but I really do appreciate your answer to that question.
No problem.
I know something like this can seem silly and nonsensical when you are young, but family traditions really do build family unity and strength over time.
I think it's nice of you to go along for the sake of your family, especially when none of it means anything to you right now
I know something like this can seem silly and nonsensical when you are young, but family traditions really do build family unity and strength over time.
I think it's nice of you to go along for the sake of your family, especially when none if means anything to you right now
I suck it up. But, I'm not a big "tradition" person, so hearing the only reason why we have a second seder is frustrating!
I don't reveal any sort of personal information on any sort of forum, but I will it's not like I'm too young to post.
I understand, wasn't trying to upset you or anything, sorry! Was just going to say you sound kind of young - let's say under 25 Most people in that age group would feel the way you do about "tradition" and be as frustrated as you are.
I think an appreciation for your family traditions doesn't really become important to most people until they themselves get closer to starting their own families. Just an observation...
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I know it all sounds/seems "ridiculous" to you (and maybe others who aren't Jewish) but since it does have meaning to them, why not let THEM explain the meaning it holds for them?
