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Please watch the clip from minute marker 8:30 to MM 12:00 and explain how the patient was able to know how the cardio/surgeon was gesturing when even the surgeon and hospital personnel involved cannot explain it.
Oh yes, the Tibetian Book of the Dead. I've tried reading it. Too complex. Does it talk about such things as the soul's migration from here to there and seeing stuff going on here on this plane on the way to the one in the sky?
This video is the best video I have ever seen. It is completely spectacular in every single way, I can't even believe it with my own eyes!!! ) Like really, whoever doesn't believe this is a complete IDIOT. Because like we definitely know SCIENTIFICALLY that ghosts and spirits do exist so it's perfectly logical that this guy's ghost came OUT of his body while he was getting surgery, and he could actually SEE the surgeon stretching with his very own GHOST EYES. Like obviously, as ghosts we will def have the same sensory perception as humans, you know? I know it, he knows it, and all the doctors even said that they CAN'T EXPLAIN IT!!!! Of course supernatural things exist, if they didn't then like this world would definitely not have all these amazing phenomenon that keep happening, especially most recently in the world. Its written in PLAIN ENGLISH in the bible <33333 Jesus loves you
Not very convincing. How can "spiritual" eyes measure light without themselves disturbing light? How come the man could only do it while on "Anastasia (or being under)"? why can't he leave his body without drugs? why couldn't his GHOST EARS hear what the doctor was saying?!?
I think its plainly obvious that although his eyes were shut and his ears weren't working (asleep), his body could still sense the movement around him and this gave him a mere visual and not auditory dream of what he should expect to see from the outside. It is very common actually, to be able to tell what those around you are doing with their bodies even though your eyes are closed, explaining the "seeing" of the blankets that they laid on him. For instance, if someone is standing next to you while in a hypnogogic state, you can still sense their movement on your skin if it is in close enough range to cause wind and bed movement to activate the tactile sense. Also, the shoes were probably just a false memory of seeing some vague shoes in the dream, or he is recalling a memory the doctor's shoes from when he first met him.
There is more than one explanation. Obviously, there would need to be scientifically valid studies testing the possibility of the phenomenon and what the mechanisms were behind it. Yet I would think if he was a ghost, why is he still stuck to a body? Why/how did he go back to his body then after he had left it? Did he have a process of transitioning or floating out of his body, and floating back into it, or did he just have a clip-vision of looking at himself being operated on by the flapping surgeon?
I think its plainly obvious that although his eyes were shut and his ears weren't working (asleep), his body could still sense the movement around him and this gave him a mere visual and not auditory dream of what he should expect to see from the outside. It is very common actually, to be able to tell what those around you are doing with their bodies even though your eyes are closed, explaining the "seeing" of the blankets that they laid on him. For instance, if someone is standing next to you while in a hypnogogic state, you can still sense their movement on your skin if it is in close enough range to cause wind and bed movement to activate the tactile sense. Also, the shoes were probably just a false memory of seeing some vague shoes in the dream, or he is recalling a memory the doctor's shoes from when he first met him.
This is what I think too.
I'm sorry, Thrill, and you could be right. I could easily be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time in my life I've been wrong. Or even the first time today, probably.
I'm probably more 'agnostic' about this than about anything on the 'supernatural' side. Evidence of a Soul is an obvious take, but until we understand what actually happened, the claim is rather in the 'you can't explain where the universe came from - so 'God' must be the answer' line of reasoning.
That it is evidence of an afterlife is a speculation beyond the Soul and that it evidence for a god let alone one particular god and religion is a leap or two beyond that.
I am watching this with interest, but I have seen far too many claims for the supernatural fail to really make the validated evidence cut to yet declare myself convinced.
NDEs are usually culturally and personally tailored, which means that they are likely psychological and not actual. The same part of your brain lights up when you "imagine" seeing as when you actually see something. Atheists that have been made to fear hell (even if in some subconscious level) often experience NDEs about hell, other people experience random NDEs about cartoons they used to watch, etc. The NDEs of Muslims enforce their Muslim believes, the NDEs experiences of Catholic enforce Catholicism, the NDEs of Protestants enforce Protestantism. In the "Account of Er," from the end of Plato's The Republic, we see a soldier named Er that seemingly "dies" for more than a week (although his body doesn't decompose), then comes back to tell his story about what he saw in his "ghost's" after-life (which of course confirmed and elaborated previous biases about Olympus and reincarnation).
Ancient Egyptians believed in 5 spirits per person, and I'm sure some of them experienced how their spirits witnessed each other.
Ib: The heart (emotional mind) would witness for or against you in the afterlife.
Sheut: The shadow followed you around to witness with an outsider's perspective.
Ren: The name comprised the person's historical identity and had to be protected.
Ba: The impression of a person would be left over on Earth as influential works.
Ka: The breath of a person was their life-essence, and constituted their animation.
The Ahk ["effective"] was the Intellectual Mind and was considered separate from the Pentasoul. It could only live on if the Ba and Ka reunited with it... sometimes creating "ghosts" (I'm guessing if the Ib was consumed by the Nether Monster at its weighing).
Spoiler
The Sheut (Shadow) can be considered what Catholic Christians would call "real presence;" specifically of Anpu i.e. Anubis, meaning "the Prince." Only found depicted in fully human form in the Tomb of Ra-moses II, Anubis has most often been found represented by a black Egyptian wolf which is not a jackal but was thought to be such before genetic studies demonstrated that it was a type of grey wolf. The black color of Anubis' wolf aspect merely represents the color often of rotting flesh and it's similarity to the black fertile soil of the nile valley (hinting to an idea of rebirth/afterlife/awakening). The idea of "the Prince" as the embalmer is probably tied to princes having to bury their dead fathers during the transfer of the throne.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-09-2014 at 02:07 AM..
Please watch the clip from minute marker 8:30 to MM 12:00 and explain how the patient was able to know how the cardio/surgeon was gesturing when even the surgeon and hospital personnel involved cannot explain it.
Why should we?
The problem with people who think NDE is some kind of evidence of an after life or that human consciousness can leave the body, is that they never present evidence to explain it. Rather, they present a situation which they declare has no explanation, to which the "mark" has no independent access, and demands they "explain it".
Why should they?
Whether they can present an explanation or not two things are true either way:
1) There is no way to substantiate any explanation anyone comes up with, it is just heresay and imagination. So any explanation we could imagine for cases like the one in the OP (and I can imagine many) can simply be dismissed by the OP due to my inability to substantiate them in any way.
2) Even if no one comes up with an explanation at all, this does not substantiate or evidence after lives or consciousness leaving the human body. An unexplained event is just that.... unexplained. NDE fetishists simply want to act like unexplained things can be used as evidence for things they just make up on the spot. They ignore the fact that one can not simply submit an entirely unexplained event as evidence for their own pet explanation. They are in such cases essentially saying "Because we can not explain it... therefore we can explain it!!!" which is clearly fetid desperation rather than rational thinking.
There simply is no positive double blind evidence for these things. The scenarios presented by people like the OP are always random cherry picked events to which no one has any independent data access.
As soon as some control is put in to actually test in a rational and unbiased way if there is something special going on here with such experiences.... the results invariably come back entirely negative. Cherry picking single examples like in the OP does nothing but expose the wishful thinking or biases of the people doing it.
This is the problem we get with accepting that something on the 'supernatural' side might have some legs. We then get a long lecture on what it all means with all sorts of speculation and ancient mythology on a pick and mix basis, presented as though it was all fact.
All this is is an unexplained event which, until it can be replicated and tested and we can find out what is happening, will remain no more than that-unexplained.
Attempts to explain the unexplained can only be hypothetical at best and sheer speculation otherwise.
There's a component of human perception called proprioceptive system. Basically, it's how we perceive ourselves, and our position relative to the external environment. Sometimes, this system results in the subjective experience of being 'outside' oneself. This often means perceptions of 'floating above one's body', and similar perceptions.
Like so many subjective experiences, it seems completely real, but there's no evidence that the person is actually leaving their body; it's something that exists entirely within their own mind.
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) Like really, whoever doesn't believe this is a complete IDIOT. Because like we definitely know SCIENTIFICALLY that ghosts and spirits do exist so it's perfectly logical that this guy's ghost came OUT of his body while he was getting surgery, and he could actually SEE the surgeon stretching with his very own GHOST EYES. Like obviously, as ghosts we will def have the same sensory perception as humans, you know? I know it, he knows it, and all the doctors even said that they CAN'T EXPLAIN IT!!!! Of course supernatural things exist, if they didn't then like this world would definitely not have all these amazing phenomenon that keep happening, especially most recently in the world. Its written in PLAIN ENGLISH in the bible <33333 Jesus loves you 
