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One thing I don't understand is the need for Jesus AFTER the Old Testament actions by people. The recurring theme of the Bible is that humanity are sinners and the other theme is that God is all holy and can't be in the presence of sin. So from what I understand about the OT main characters of David, Solomon, etc is that they sought after God and that alone was good enough to "cover" their sins and on Judgment Day will be with God because of their "loyalty to God.". Then apparently God thinks this is not enough so a blood sacrifice is now necessary to "cover these sins" and be with God in heaven. I'm atheist myself for many reasons outside this topic but could somebody explain any errors I have in the general understanding of this topic. It all seems illogical that in one time period loyalty was fine and now it's "accepting Jesus" as your savior stuff.
One thing I don't understand is the need for Jesus AFTER the Old Testament actions by people. The recurring theme of the Bible is that humanity are sinners and the other theme is that God is all holy and can't be in the presence of sin. So from what I understand about the OT main characters of David, Solomon, etc is that they sought after God and that alone was good enough to "cover" their sins and on Judgment Day will be with God because of their "loyalty to God.". Then apparently God thinks this is not enough so a blood sacrifice is now necessary to "cover these sins" and be with God in heaven. I'm atheist myself for many reasons outside this topic but could somebody explain any errors I have in the general understanding of this topic. It all seems illogical that in one time period loyalty was fine and now it's "accepting Jesus" as your savior stuff.
Long story short: David and Solomon are descendants of Abraham, Jesus then extended the ...stuff?... to include people who weren't descendants of Abraham (and did away with the hard stuff "while keeping every letter of the old Law" the exact same). But doing away with the hard stuff (giving "easier" crony keys to Jews and non-Jews) now adds Jesus as a hurtle for non-Jesus worshiping Jews.
Bear with me here:
The idea is that God was racist and chose ancient Jews in the lineage of Abraham for fertility ritual using an animal sacrifice blood ritual and a test of faith (willingness to kill own son, but good messengers of god won't let it go through, but the devilish willingness is still good).
Zoroastrians and others (although monotheists or polytheists that believed in one Supreme Creator god who wasn't jealous of his children/creation gods being worshipped) just weren't doing it right.
David and Solomon were Jewish (so "chosen") before the divine/human assisted suicide sacrifice of three days of a man-god's life and one day of averagely bad torture. They sought after the "right" God, not the "God" that Babylonians described as letting his god/angel children/creations rule over different powers/areas of Earth. After Jesus was born (or inseminated or fertilized) Jews had to recognize him as God himself (not just a normal Messiah, like King David) and Jesus extended this "only the henchmen will be happy on Judgement Day" rule to pagans (non-Jews), but changed the one for Jews to include "henchmen of Jesus as God too" all after his death and subtle resurrection-possibility hints with barely any hard evidence let alone definitive proof.
Jew's don't believe in Jesus so there goes that theory.
I don't really understand it either, even having grown up in church!! Why could god do just fine in ot now magically need Jesus??
Theory? What theory?
It's like the basic theology of Christianity. Do you want me to quote ancient or modern (trinitarian) Christian leaders?
To most Christians, Jews are not "being as good as Solomon and David" were because they don't believe Yahweh when he supposedly turned into (or came as) Jesus and came on Earth to die for everyone who believes in him as Yahweh... blah blah. If some King in Babylonia was really into henotheism of El (Worshiping only the First Creator) many of the Jews wouldn't say "oh that King is in Heaven with El/Yahweh" since that that king "of the chosen people". Some Jews are more liberal and less picky, so they might say yes (but then that wouldn't really force anyone to convert to their specific religion and thus strengthen it in that way).
This is one of the reasons (other than the ingrained social and psychological reasons) that trinitarian Christianity out grew the "Jesus is not God" ancient Christianities. If Jesus didn't write anything and didn't accomplish anything other than saying "get back to Solomon and David", what would be his point? (Or in better phrasing, what would be the point in caring in any way about him instead of directly about Solomon and David's way of life?).
If Jesus was just a human Messiah possibly reinterpreting how to worship Yahweh, you'd have to convert to Judaism to "be saved" from being wrong/not chosen, which is hard to do given the racial/lineage aspect of that religion, (never mind that all of the Messianic prophecies about the FIRST AND ONLY coming of the Last Messiah didn't get fulfilled). Adding one book to Jewish scriptures and reinterpreting some vague prophesying and symbology throughout Jewish scriptures to be about the Last Messiah, wouldn't attract anyone who wouldn't first want to convert to Judaism (and that would come with great objections from the core of Judaism that is seen as "chosen" race and wouldn't see how adding masses from "other genetic races" in wouldn't destroy the whole idea of chosen "race/lineage" to begin with). That is how Jesus being God and doing away with Judaism "while not doing away with it" is supposed to attract more converts that are Jews and (especially) non-Jews. However Jewish prophecy states that Israel will be recognized as the best Kingdom and Jews will be in all Regions, all of which will not necessarily be Jewish but will look up to Israel as their better. This is included in Christian O.T./N.T. books so many Christians see themselves as the "real" Israelites... although they could in fact be the "real" non-Jewish races for whom the chalice of suffering was passed to.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 01-05-2017 at 02:20 AM..
All people from the house of Abraham with the blessing of Isaac through to Jesus who were obedient and had compassion of love for God were saved by the promise of Jesus to come , as a shadow of the Messiah to come for salvation , where people who were saved God collected their soul and spirit at their passing and these were sent to the heavenly place called the bosom of Abraham , which then after the cross of Christ these people souls were processed and this bosom of Abraham was removed by God , were Jews now and all people will need to turn to Jesus , as no on goes to the Father God but through Jesus
JI don't really understand it either, even having grown up in church!! Why could god do just fine in ot now magically need Jesus??
...and why would the OT say that Yahweh's laws are unchanging and will last until the end of time and then have the Jesus character come along and change them??
Jew's don't believe in Jesus so there goes that theory.
I don't really understand it either, even having grown up in church!! Why could god do just fine in ot now magically need Jesus??
Believing in Jesus ~2000 years ago by his followers was akin to the idol worshipers who wanted someone to represent their new belief. Religion wise it's like comparing Reform Jews to Orthodox Jews and Christians were Reform.
Believing in Jesus ~2000 years ago by his followers was akin to the idol worshipers who wanted someone to represent their new belief. Religion wise it's like comparing Reform Jews to Orthodox Jews and Christians were Reform.
Can you give some detail on that?...
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