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In the beginning this was the Self alone, in the shape of a person. He looking around saw nothing but his Self. (They talk about him burning down evils) He feared, and therefore anyone who is lonely fears. He thought "As there is nothing but myself, why should I fear?" Thence fear passed away. For what should he have feared?
But he felt no delight. Therefore a man who is lonely feels no delight. He wished for a second. He was so large as a man and a woman together. He then made his self fall in two, and thence arouse husband and wife. Therefore he said: "We two are thus, each of us, like half a shell." Therefore the void which was there was filled by the wife. He embraced her, and men were born. (it goes on to tell how he/she started changing form, starting with cattle, and they went at it like Discovery Channel)
Judaism (and by extension Christianity)
Quote:
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
When heaven and earth began, three deities came into being, The Spirit Master of the Center of Heaven, The August Wondrously Producing Spirit, and the Divine Wondrously Producing Ancestor. These three were invisible. The earth was young then, and land floated like oil, and from it reed shoots sprouted. From these reeds came two more deities. After them, five or six pairs of deities came into being, and the last of these were Izanagi and Izanami, whose names mean "The Male Who Invites" and "The Female who Invites".
The first five deities commanded Izanagi and Izanami to make and solidify the land of Japan, and they gave the young pair a jeweled spear. Standing on the Floating Bridge of Heaven, they dipped it in the ocean brine and stirred. They pulled out the spear, and the brine that dripped of it formed an island to which they descended. On this island they built a palace for their wedding and a great column to the heavens.
Izanami examined her body and found that one place had not grown, and she told this to Izanagi, who replied that his body was well-formed but that one place had grown to excess. He proposed that he place his excess in her place that was not complete and that in doing so they would make new land. They agreed to walk around the pillar and meet behind it to do this. When they arrive behind the pillar, she greeted him by saying "What a fine young man", and he responded by greeting her with "What a fine young woman". They procreated and gave birth to a leech-child, which they put in a basket and let float away. (It goes on to tell of the formation of various Japanese regions and islands. I assume the "leech child is likely Jeju Island, which is disputed territory for Korea and Japan)
Summary
Okay, so at least four different religions saying essentially the same thing.
There was a Void, then a Self (God) emerges from Void. It is unclear how this happens, just that it does. Self becomes Male and Female, Self and Other. Self is horny for Other, and existence becomes a mix of Self and Other, the world we are, and the world we see (which explains why males are such jerks, Self is a male concept, while Other is female. Hence women's basketball focuses on teamwork, men's basketball emphasizes the star player. Mother Nature, and Creator as Father. And so on) Human beings are part of the Self of God, but also part of the Other, they are members of the Earth, and do not identify as God. From Hinduism we also get the reason why God brought us into this Earth, because unity is boring and lonely, despite being perfect. And we are on this world to learn what we can, with the purpose of growth (this can be spiritual development through reincarnation, or it may mean changing this world).
Many religions seem to jive with this assumption of the nature of God, self, and universe (except for Buddhism, which has a different notion of either no self, or a greater unified self; and except for Islam which holds God as a dinstinctly separate being meaning we have to submit to this, putting them at odds with most other theism which at least has some of this).
There is an element of counting the hits and ignoring the misses and thereby joining up the selected dots to fit the desired picture.
While there is going to be a similarity in answering the questions - where did everything come from? It couldn't come from what was already there as it merely poses the same questions, so a formless nothing has to be imagined to provide an answer. And a maker who was there in this Nothing also is the 'Commonsense' answer - within the human imagination of the time - there are obvious differences.
Eg. the creation is created. And then of course, the invisible sky -human (being created in our own image) needs a spouse. That seems to have been the case with YHWH as a Canaanite tribal deity. But then as the Hebrew need to make all the gods subordinate to YHWH and then eliminate them altogether, a Mrs God wasn't appropriate and she vanished.
P.s I am going to enter "Hmmm..." into the theist -english dictionary. Translates as: "you are invited to jump to the conclusion laid out for you".
what interests me is not definitions of god,
or how creation came to be,
but how humans treat each other
as a measure or litmus test of our spiritual advancement
that is what is appealing to me about the thread topic "Universal Self"
so setting aside the names and beliefs of any particular religion,
if there is a goal (such as reaching Enlightenment, or growing into our higher self or best self) how can we measure our progress in reaching that goal?
what does it look like, what does it feel like, as indicated in how we live our daily lives and how we are in relationship with other humans.
do we become more kind, compassionate, peaceful, humble, generous, joyful?
do we move away from hate, violence, corruption, anger, brutality, deception, arrogance?
how can we gauge (for ourselves only, not in criticizing others) how we are progressing along the spectrum of spiritual growth and spiritual advancement?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-03-2015 at 11:53 AM..
There is an element of counting the hits and ignoring the misses and thereby joining up the selected dots to fit the desired picture.
While there is going to be a similarity in answering the questions - where did everything come from? It couldn't come from what was already there as it merely poses the same questions, so a formless nothing has to be imagined to provide an answer. And a maker who was there in this Nothing also is the 'Commonsense' answer - within the human imagination of the time - there are obvious differences.
Eg. the creation is created. And then of course, the invisible sky -human (being created in our own image) needs a spouse. That seems to have been the case with YHWH as a Canaanite tribal deity. But then as the Hebrew need to make all the gods subordinate to YHWH and then eliminate them altogether, a Mrs God wasn't appropriate and she vanished.
P.s I am going to enter "Hmmm..." into the theist -english dictionary. Translates as: "you are invited to jump to the conclusion laid out for you".
This is how creation myths come about, Arequipa. I know the common atheist/agnostic take on this is to act like people made it up, but essentially, as humans, we use the logic we have and try the best guess.
Btw, anyone who is like "well, this is just because they are all theist" yeah, well, they actually couldn't be more different.
Taoism is pantheist atheist, and Dualistic.
Hinduism is either monotheistic/trinitarian/polytheistic, depending on who you ask.
Judaism (and Christianity, despite its trinitarian bend) is monotheistic.
Shintoism is animistic.
And yet they all agree on a logical progression of Void, then Being, then division of Being into male and female. Why? Because this is the reality which can be seen with the eyes. Our religions write it between the lines, but essentially we see the Godhood in ourselves and each other (made in God's image) and since we are divided into male and female, as is everything else, that's how it rolls, I guess.
...Regarding the female God. Read Proverbs about Lady Wisdom. Or Hokhmah. Btw, there is a reason it is Father, "Holy Spirit", and "Son" (Child). Guess what the Holy Spirit is? Wisdom. What is Wisdom but the feminine creative force of existence? The Trinity is a holy family, a model for male/female/child to support reproduction (that said, I'm transgender, and I believe one day we will be able to adjust our gender to make families with with whoever by perfecting gender change). But you are correct, the patriarchy kinda drove the female aspect of God underground for a long time.
The goal is a bit more difficult to pin down, Tzaphkiel.
In fact it seems to be the differing point. It seems like God/whatever put us on this Earth... to decide why we were put on this Earth. I've consulted scriptures, logicked it through, listened to intuition, nothing. It's not a set in stone goal. God doesn't really set demands on us, but loves us regardless. So yes, whatever goal we have, working in earnest towards it seems more important.
Taoism
(As influenced by Zen Buddhism) Live in the moment, I guess. Traditional Taoism also has immortality as a goal. Taoism doesn't really have a concept of afterlife btw.
Christianity
The Church is the bride of Christ. The ultimate point of existence is to bring God's reign to Earth, cast out Satan, and make a new and better Earth/Heaven.
Shintoism
Humans are part of the natural realm, which is sacred. Pollution does occur through normal acts such as contact with things that threaten life, for example: death, blood, or disease. This is unavoidable and constitutes no "sin." Pollution is washed away regularly through acts of purification. Thus one's purpose is to maintain the pure and natural state of existence.
(Which isn't really a point, but that's just me)
Hinduism/Buddhism
Essentially, the body is reborn (sorry, reincarnated) again and again to learn about life. When they become sufficiently advanced, they merge with the source/get snuffed out (essentially the same thing, the individual self is merged with the universal Self)
But that kinda defeats the above quote. If the first Self was lonely, what would be the point of merging again?
Due to the last, I think I would prefer a purpose where humans somehow transcend human vice and become more like God, rather than just merging with God. A sort of advancement of the universe into a higher state, while still maintaining the diversity of humans (which btw, is largely an illusion, because we are all part of God, but anyway it's more of a goal than cycling back to start).
There was a Void, then a Self (God) emerges from Void. It is unclear how this happens, just that it does.
Many religions seem to jive with this assumption of the nature of God, self, and universe (except for Buddhism, which has a different notion of either no self, or a greater unified self; and except for Islam which holds God as a dinstinctly separate being meaning we have to submit to this, putting them at odds with most other theism which at least has some of this).
I believe the Self emerges along with time which emerges and with whatever that emerges. Then when higher self-awareness emerges the human Self invent God and the Void to deal with inevitable inherent existential dilemma.
Note the apes our nearest evolutionary cousins [with 96-98% similar DNA] also emerge with self-awareness but of lower degree; whilst they can invent basic tools they did not [no ability to] invent God and the Void.
The self emerges in many layers, i.e.
1. The physical self
2. The empirical self
3. The self-conscious self
4. The self of "I Think"
5. The self of "I AM"
6. The reified "I AM"
The problem is, whilst the concept of 'self' especially a self of "I AM" that survives physical death is very psychological consoling, it has its liability, i.e. a problem of infinite regression and tons of sufferings to humanity. [Islam is one good example, the egomaniac narcissistic genocidal dictators and others]
The ultimate of non-self is " ", continuous improvements, equanimity and no infinite regression, no baggage, thus real internal peace.
"G()D" really exemplifies the highest level position. Ideas of G()D vary.
From within the simulation(s) of beginning the Void represents the first beginning. In relation to the idea that G()D has no beginning, and therefore cannot be called 'G()D' (because G()D is not supposed to have a beginning - right?) the idea is that the Void represents the entrance point of the simulation of beginning(s) and as such is a portal of which nothing is known about in relation to 'the other side' of that portal.
One obvious solution is that what is on 'the other side' is something conscious which has never had a beginning and sort to discover what a beginning would be like.
Was that 'something' therefore G()D? Does that something become G()D when it achieves the initial beginning or was it always G()D?
What actually determines 'what a G()D is'? That which is 'First'?
Making man a demi-god of his own destiny by a so called universal self religion will only make him alone to himself , except there is the deception of demonic activities who can become familiar spirits and blend into the self demi-god and lead the man away from any change to betterment ..................See the true God will bow to the man decision on his belief ,.............. But the demons and fallen angels will not , as they become god with man and his lonely self and man cannot do any thing to get rid of them except stop doing what evil he is thinking that hold against the will power of the mind and body ....
Most Christians I've heard don't see God as "a Being starting after a Void" or "a Being feeling a Void of loneliness"... Their creation myth is: Being, Being decides because its good (instead of randomly or out of a "void" from there not being enough good) to create children/property, Being decides because its good to divide some of those children/property (animals) into male and female... etc... Being loves itself as it always was and always will be and maintains it that way. Technically, in this scenario there is no room for evil (no void apart from God where evil can live within or gain its existential support). Most Christians thus say that there are such voids but they are created by Humans/Angel-level gods, I'm not sure were there would be room to create voids though if said Being was originally everything (or the only thing) and maintained itself that way.
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