8 reasons why Christianity is an unhealthy way of thinking (salvation, Buddhist, souls)

[Phil P]

Here are 8 lines of Christian thinking that demonstrate why I believe Christianity according to what the bible literally says is not a healthy way of thinking or living:
1. Faith supercedes reason. But let's say that faith really does trump reason. I then say that I am right in whatever I say in this post because I have faith that I am right. In fact, I am god himself because I said so, so take that. Your attempts to dissuade me won't count as your reasoning is inferior to my faith.
1. Originality establishes legitimacy and not effectiveness or demonstrability. I don't care what the original greek or hebrew really says, either the arguments made in the bible are valid or they aren't. Trying to stamp out any heresy because it does not jive with the original text or idea is wrong. In science, if someone makes a counter claim, either their claim will be accepted as valid or it will be proven otherwise; scientists don't have to add phrases like: "If anyone preaches another gravitational theory, let him be accursed" We should choose the gospel that demonstrates to be the most effective way as a way to live, Jesus's or not.
3. There's a heaven or hell reward system to everything we do. What's wrong with just feeding the poor or taking in the stranger just to be nice, why do we always have to have a reward of heavenly jewels for doing something like that? And why do I have to have the threat of hell waiting over me to coax me not to steal or kill or, god forbid, fornicate?
4. Sex is strongly discouraged. Like I said, having sex with someone you aren't married to is seen as an utmost sin in Christianity. In fact, Paul would just as soon have us all be virgins and not even have sex with someone we're married to. But I say living a miserable married life or constantly repressing your sexual desires is an awful way to go about living. It is funny how violence is promoted throughout the bible though Apparently its wrong to make babies, but its ok to kill them when they're full grown (god forbid you abort them, although I'm still looking for scripture and verse on that one. PS don't turn this in to an abortion thread, think your thoughts but don't post them)
5. You must have a man of god leading your spiritual life.*Note MAN of god. Anyways, a person should be free to determine the best path for their own life. Sure we need people to guide us and provide useful criticism when we need it, but we don't need to have to pay a person a 10% tax to have them always tell us how to correctly interpret our spiritual lives.
6. The earth was cursed from the start and will be blown away when the antichrist comes. Consequently, the earth isn't that important because its just a cursed hunk of rock half dominated by satan. And animals don't have souls so its ok to kill and eat them.
7. We must ensure that our kids believe in god just like we did -- and lets teach sunday school to other peoples kids. Religion in my opinion is an adult only thing. Kids just don't think abstractly until about age twelve. It's ok to teach your kid ethics and whats right and wrong, but to teach them about heaven and hell and sin and who god is and who the devil is before they have the minds to comprehend it is brainwash in my opinion.
8. My way is the only way to believe This is 90% of the entire bibles content. We could both be wrong or we could both be right, but not according to Christianity.

Obviously, not every Christian believes this, but this is what the bible teaches us if we read it literally.

State your opinions about this though.

[lovesMountains]

But that is just the thing...we are not supposed to read it strictly literally (though of course some do).

[bulmabriefs144]

I could give 8 reasons why a purely secular view is an unhealthy way of thinking.

1. It encourages the idea progress for the sake of progress. Look at our today's technology. It's incredibly advanced right? Yea, it is, I won't argue with this. But rampant smog, overpopulation, economic recession on a global scale, and abyssmal birthrate are now problems that we have this progress to thank.
2. Far from some sort of divinely chosen people, humans are just animals. Yes, humans are also animals. But I'd like to think we've moved beyond being only animals, and that there's some purpose to our existence.
3. It distances you from other people. A person who has only themselves to thank for anything that happens in life, is effectively cut off from things like gratitude or social connections.
4. It removes a necessity of accountability. Without some sense that your life can get better/worse after death, you have to rely on mundane rewards/punishments to guide behavior. But if you're not particularly greedy, and stop being afraid of punishment this is pretty useless. You can do whatever you want, and then kill yourself before someone punish you.
5. Cogs in the machine. The industrial revolution 9-5 schedule was a secular theor, that then go mandated to public schools. But people are not wired this way, it makes them stressed and unhappy. People should work until done with the job at hand, and go home to family.
6. Speaking of family. In the race toward "equality" (an admirable goal if done well, but more places that use this word have) we've lost sight that getting along is more important to harmony than trying to be equal (which is based upon perception of fairness and can never be satisfied), winding up in more divorces.
7. From what I've seen, atheism doesn't value logic or reason any more than religion. Several time I've run into people saying they "know" this or that to be true. This is not a proof btw. A proof is "I know this works because..." is a proof.
8. Whether myths of religion are real or not, you can generally count on other people in the church. On the other hand the disconnect between yourself and other people is even bigger with one less place to hang out. Without firm ties to people and things around you, you slowly get more an more weird from getting locked out. Spending out hours alone on the computer, giving yourself to various obsessions, and so on.
9. My way is the only way to believe. Same exact deal. Sorry.

Since the behavior patterns are more aggressive, dangerous, and unhealthy in this case, yea, I'm gonna take exception at this.

[justus978]

looks like a tie folks......it's ones belief system, regardless of where it came from or how you arrived at it, it's yours, own it...or...the argument goes on forever.

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Phil P

Obviously, not every Christian believes this, but this is what the bible teaches us if we read it literally.

State your opinions about this though.

I call myself a Christian and I didn't see anything in that list that I believe or recall being taught in the Bible, either literally or figuratively. Any scriptural backing for the assertions?

As far as faith and reason, they are different disciplines. One may reason from a position of faith in basic assumptions or from a position of denial of those assumptions which can not be empirically proven.

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

I could give 8 reasons why a purely secular view is an unhealthy way of thinking.

1. It encourages the idea progress for the sake of progress. Look at our today's technology. It's incredibly advanced right? Yea, it is, I won't argue with this. But rampant smog, overpopulation, economic recession on a global scale, and abyssmal birthrate are now problems that we have this progress to thank.

Theism tends toward anti BC methods. Theists tend to not care about global warming as they assume a messiah will return to effect a magic fix.

2. Far from some sort of divinely chosen people, humans are just animals. Yes, humans are also animals. But I'd like to think we've moved beyond being only animals, and that there's some purpose to our existence.
3. It distances you from other people. A person who has only themselves to thank for anything that happens in life, is effectively cut off from things like gratitude or social connections.

What makes you think that secularism means no social life?

4. It removes a necessity of accountability. Without some sense that your life can get better/worse after death, you have to rely on mundane rewards/punishments to guide behavior. But if you're not particularly greedy, and stop being afraid of punishment this is pretty useless. You can do whatever you want, and then kill yourself before someone punish you.

You can do whatever you want in the confines of secular law.

5. Cogs in the machine. The industrial revolution 9-5 schedule was a secular theor, that then go mandated to public schools. But people are not wired this way, it makes them stressed and unhappy. People should work until done with the job at hand, and go home to family.
6. Speaking of family. In the race toward "equality" (an admirable goal if done well, but more places that use this word have) we've lost sight that getting along is more important to harmony than trying to be equal (which is based upon perception of fairness and can never be satisfied), winding up in more divorces.

Dunno, seems theists divorce at much the same rate as others as this is anyway a secular law governed by secular stances. Seems that godly vows have zero impact on the potential success of any so called religious marriages.

7. From what I've seen, atheism doesn't value logic or reason any more than religion. Several time I've run into people saying they "know" this or that to be true. This is not a proof btw. A proof is "I know this works because..." is a proof.

Logic of atheism is valid. Often assertions made by theists do not follow the rules of logic. That said, most atheists apply these rules of loci to theist claims and the claims invariably fail. If for example I say there is no god, we generally refer to bible god and not your personal one. Conversely, theist often display their illogic when attacking say the ToE.

8. Whether myths of religion are real or not, you can generally count on other people in the church. On the other hand the disconnect between yourself and other people is even bigger with one less place to hang out. Without firm ties to people and things around you, you slowly get more an more weird from getting locked out. Spending out hours alone on the computer, giving yourself to various obsessions, and so on.

Beg to differ here. My experience showed they are pretty shallo an unreliable,not to mention untrustworthy and sometimes downright dishonest. On the Sunday face of it, they do try hard to pretend to being what they are not.

9. My way is the only way to believe. Same exact deal. Sorry.

Since the behavior patterns are more aggressive, dangerous, and unhealthy in this case, yea, I'm gonna take exception at this.

Not really, personal beliefs of theists would be left alone if they kept it private. My experience is that theists are the ones being nosey concerning personal beliefs. No theist will knock on your door and ask you "have you lost Jesus" or "can we take a few moment to tell you of our non church"

You will not find atheists handing out Darwin tracts at your church yet theist will ha,ve no issue bugging you at say mall or public parking place. more examples but you get the gist. Where i stay, this does not happen as we have privacy laws that override free speech, you may noteven place tracts under a windshield wiper or commercial for that matter.

Why churches do not use the papers beats me,they just have to be seen in false piety to be doing the lawds work.

[Dredre]

Originally Posted by Phil P

Here are 8 lines of Christian thinking that demonstrate why I believe Christianity according to what the bible literally says is not a healthy way of thinking or living:
1. Faith supercedes reason. But let's say that faith really does trump reason. I then say that I am right in whatever I say in this post because I have faith that I am right. In fact, I am god himself because I said so, so take that. Your attempts to dissuade me won't count as your reasoning is inferior to my faith.
1. Originality establishes legitimacy and not effectiveness or demonstrability. I don't care what the original greek or hebrew really says, either the arguments made in the bible are valid or they aren't. Trying to stamp out any heresy because it does not jive with the original text or idea is wrong. In science, if someone makes a counter claim, either their claim will be accepted as valid or it will be proven otherwise; scientists don't have to add phrases like: "If anyone preaches another gravitational theory, let him be accursed" We should choose the gospel that demonstrates to be the most effective way as a way to live, Jesus's or not.
3. There's a heaven or hell reward system to everything we do. What's wrong with just feeding the poor or taking in the stranger just to be nice, why do we always have to have a reward of heavenly jewels for doing something like that? And why do I have to have the threat of hell waiting over me to coax me not to steal or kill or, god forbid, fornicate?
4. Sex is strongly discouraged. Like I said, having sex with someone you aren't married to is seen as an utmost sin in Christianity. In fact, Paul would just as soon have us all be virgins and not even have sex with someone we're married to. But I say living a miserable married life or constantly repressing your sexual desires is an awful way to go about living. It is funny how violence is promoted throughout the bible though Apparently its wrong to make babies, but its ok to kill them when they're full grown (god forbid you abort them, although I'm still looking for scripture and verse on that one. PS don't turn this in to an abortion thread, think your thoughts but don't post them)
5. You must have a man of god leading your spiritual life.*Note MAN of god. Anyways, a person should be free to determine the best path for their own life. Sure we need people to guide us and provide useful criticism when we need it, but we don't need to have to pay a person a 10% tax to have them always tell us how to correctly interpret our spiritual lives.
6. The earth was cursed from the start and will be blown away when the antichrist comes. Consequently, the earth isn't that important because its just a cursed hunk of rock half dominated by satan. And animals don't have souls so its ok to kill and eat them.
7. We must ensure that our kids believe in god just like we did -- and lets teach sunday school to other peoples kids. Religion in my opinion is an adult only thing. Kids just don't think abstractly until about age twelve. It's ok to teach your kid ethics and whats right and wrong, but to teach them about heaven and hell and sin and who god is and who the devil is before they have the minds to comprehend it is brainwash in my opinion.
8. My way is the only way to believe This is 90% of the entire bibles content. We could both be wrong or we could both be right, but not according to Christianity.

Obviously, not every Christian believes this, but this is what the bible teaches us if we read it literally.

State your opinions about this though.

1. “But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.” Hebrews 11:6 The faith that “supercedes” reason is not just any faith. The only faith that Christians are required to have is faith that God is who He says He is and thus can do what He says He can do. So I don’t have faith that if I jump off a building I can fly. This would be having faith in myself and my ability to fly, a feat for which I have no merit. But I do have faith that God protects, something that He has told me that He does in his word. If God’s chosen way to get me out of harm’s way is for me to fly, then yes indirectly I have faith that I can fly. So does faith really trump reason? Blind faith in something other than God does not. But if your faith is in a God who is omnipotent then it’s perfectly logical to arrive at conclusions that you couldn’t have with reason alone. Finally to say that you have faith that you are right in whatever you say is faith in yourself.

2. There is a difference between theory which starts from nothing and attempts to reach ultimate truth through time, work, and effort and divine revelation which purports to be ultimate truth from the get go. If you start from nothing then it follows that the more time, work, and effort you put into it, the closer to ultimate truth it should get. On the other hand if you start with ultimate truth, then you really shouldn’t disturb it. I don’t know if you’ve ever attempted to learn a language other than your native one but the meaning of the phrase “lost in translation” gains more weight the further you go.

3. Heaven is not a reward for being nice, feeding the poor, and taking in the stranger. Isaiah 64:6 says that all our works are as filthy rags. No amount of filthy rags that we throw at God will get us into Heaven. It’s a good thing that salvation is a free gift from God. We are justified simply by believing that God is who He says He is and that His son’s sacrifice takes the place of the death that should have been ours. That we do (or are supposed to do) all those “nice things” is evidence that God is working in us sanctifying us day by day. So it’s not let me do all these things so I can be saved. It’s I’m saved, so let me do all these things. Living with this mindset hell hardly even crosses your mind.

4. Sex outside of marriage is strongly discouraged. You forgot the “outside” part. Once you’re married have as much sex as you want. Sex outside of marriage isn’t the utmost sin. Sin is sin although I’d argue that sin that causes other people to sin is worse kind of sin. So I guess this kind of is a two for one deal Anyway I could see a church looking down on women who have gotten pregnant outside of wedlock and all of the judgmentally judgy judging that comes with it. It is not the church’s place to say you horrible, terrible, sorry excuse for a human being. First of all these adjectives are likely not true. Secondly it’s about love not hate.

5. A man of God leading your spiritual life? Sorry, never heard this one before. I will say that it is dangerous to put one’s trust in one fallible man alone to guide one’s spiritual life. The weight of the matters in question here are too heavy to place on one many alone.

6. The earth was cursed after the fall. It’s half dominated by Satan because we have let him dominate it. It won’t be pushed away by wind but yes there will come a time when there will be no human life here. After which it will be remade anew and reinhabited. Not bad for a cursed hunk of rock. Note, eating animals was not a part of the original plan. Adam and Eve didn’t eat animals in the garden but sin has a way of changing things. There is evidence for deviations from the original plan in Mark 10.

7. Agreed, we all crawl before we walk, and walk before we run. There is only a problem if we don’t’ crawl at all.

8. I do have to admit that Christianity is a pretty exclusive religion. “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12. It’s a good thing then that the God of Christianity is gracious, full of compassion, slow to anger, and of great mercy (Psalm 145:8), will not allow the end to come until the knowledge of the kingdom has reached the entire world (Matthews 24:14), and even has delayed His coming because He wants everyone to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:4 and 9). How is it possible for someone who knows the beginning to the end and who inhabits eternity to “delay” their coming? Now that takes faith.

[bulmabriefs144]

Blue blue.

Originally Posted by SeekerSA

Theism tends toward anti BC methods. Theists tend to not care about global warming as they assume a messiah will return to effect a magic fix.

That's conservatives. Most true theists would likely care at least a bit, at least if they saw forest destruction firsthand. I certainly do.

What makes you think that secularism means no social life?

It's not simple "social life." "I am to blame/credit for my own creation, not some God" is the general feeling. Now, apply that mentality to people ("not other people" instead). You can't really connect with others, you can appear to, but at the core you're a narcissist jerk.

You can do whatever you want in the confines of secular law.

The problem with this, is if an atheist becomes president (or is simply apathetic about the law), they effectively own the law and can do whatever they want. Btw, the general lack of some eternal accounting system (not that I believe in the tradition one myself, I go with Swedenborg) means none of it really matters. You had fun, and then someone killed you, and that's it.

Dunno, seems theists divorce at much the same rate as others as this is anyway a secular law governed by secular stances. Seems that godly vows have zero impact on the potential success of any so called religious marriages.

Because we operate under the secular equal rights marriage system. I'm not saying the 1950s "papa knows best" is better, in fact in some ways it was much worse. But also in that era it was considered shameful to divorce. Now we got rid of the shame aspect, people do it left and right.

Logic of atheism is valid. Often assertions made by theists do not follow the rules of logic. That said, most atheists apply these rules of loci to theist claims and the claims invariably fail. If for example I say there is no god, we generally refer to bible god and not your personal one. Conversely, theist often display their illogic when attacking say the ToE.

I have argued until I'm blue in the face just the simple "creation presupposes a creator." It's simple logic, and I could show you any simple object from a pencil to a book, tell you its manufacturer, etc. Does it have to be an Abrahamic creator? No. Does it have to be at all like Christians think? No. But theism on the most basic level works (and that might dictate a infinite chain of creators, I don't care). Nothing in this world appears to be excepted from that rule, dead things are crafted, living things are born.

Beg to differ here. My experience showed they are pretty shallo an unreliable,not to mention untrustworthy and sometimes downright dishonest. On the Sunday face of it, they do try hard to pretend to being what they are not.

You're not getting what I'm saying. I don't mean they're trustworthy (in fact, I'm pretty sure they're flawed). I meant you can count on being able to connect with people at church. Provided you have the social skills to connect with other people anyway that is. Left to your own devices, the bar is pretty much all you'd consistently find people at, and they're invariably drunks or crazy lonely people. Churchgoing has a chance of giving you decent relationships or friendships. And it's not limited to Christianity. I could go to any temple (besides maybe Buddhist) and find my future wife given the right compatibility.

Not really, personal beliefs of theists would be left alone if they kept it private. My experience is that theists are the ones being nosey concerning personal beliefs. No theist will knock on your door and ask you "have you lost Jesus" or "can we take a few moment to tell you of our non church"

You will not find atheists handing out Darwin tracts at your church yet theist will ha,ve no issue bugging you at say mall or public parking place. more examples but you get the gist. Where i stay, this does not happen as we have privacy laws that override free speech, you may noteven place tracts under a windshield wiper or commercial for that matter.

Why churches do not use the papers beats me,they just have to be seen in false piety to be doing the lawds work.

The reason we have such heated debates in this forum, is because there are more than a few atheists that are as rabid as the people they debate against. No, they don't have tracts but... My point stands.

[SeekerSA]

What makes you think that secularism means no social life?

It's not simple "social life." "I am to blame/credit for my own creation, not some God" is the general feeling. Now, apply that mentality to people ("not other people" instead). You can't really connect with others, you can appear to, but at the core you're a narcissist jerk.

Neither theism or secularism defines what causes folk to be jerks

You can do whatever you want in the confines of secular law.

The problem with this, is if an atheist becomes president (or is simply apathetic about the law), they effectively own the law and can do whatever they want. Btw, the general lack of some eternal accounting system (not that I believe in the tradition one myself, I go with Swedenborg) means none of it really matters. You had fun, and then someone killed you, and that's it.

I dunno, then again looking at US politics, they do tend to pander to the religious and then go onto to do their own thing anyway. I dunno why an atheist would be any different. The higher authority should be a constitution unless you live where there is none. Where there is none, the laws of the land should be the higher authority but no doubt, this does not apply to politicians. The only thing I can think of is the SSM issues with abortion. Well where I live and grew up, no politician ran on these issues ever. There is no line in the sand that suggests an atheist would condone abortion. There are many pro life guys as there are pro choice. The difference is, these vies tend to be personal and not religiously motivated meaning they would not push to have their views made law. Other than that what else is there? Cannot see atheist politicians insisting religion be banned, they would separate the two with clear dividing lines. IMO this is perhaps what the US needs right now.

Dunno, seems theists divorce at much the same rate as others as this is anyway a secular law governed by secular stances. Seems that godly vows have zero impact on the potential success of any so called religious marriages.

Because we operate under the secular equal rights marriage system. I'm not saying the 1950s "papa knows best" is better, in fact in some ways it was much worse. But also in that era it was considered shameful to divorce. Now we got rid of the shame aspect, people do it left and right.

Cultures evolve. Many of my FB friends my age are now divorced at 50+ so were the views of divorce not that taboo, they may have found better partners. Divorce will decline if folk ignore the faux shame and live together before committing and reproducing and thereby marrying at more sensible ages when they have grown up properly. My late wife and I lived together 3 years before we married and I know that pee'd my religious dad off quite a bit. Neither of us was unfaithful in 30 years.

Logic of atheism is valid. Often assertions made by theists do not follow the rules of logic. That said, most atheists apply these rules of loci to theist claims and the claims invariably fail. If for example I say there is no god, we generally refer to bible god and not your personal one. Conversely, theist often display their illogic when attacking say the ToE.

I have argued until I'm blue in the face just the simple "creation presupposes a creator." It's simple logic, and I could show you any simple object from a pencil to a book, tell you its manufacturer, etc. Does it have to be an Abrahamic creator? No. Does it have to be at all like Christians think? No. But theism on the most basic level works (and that might dictate a infinite chain of creators, I don't care). Nothing in this world appears to be excepted from that rule, dead things are crafted, living things are born.

You see design, I see chance. Your premise is from irreducible complexity or blind watchmaker and perhaps that is b/c you do not understand the subject well enough. As humans we are not perfectly designed. What purpose do wisdom teeth serve, your appendix? That in itself suggests we are still evolving but it does not happen in one generation. The natural selection is on pause as we have adapted the environment to suit us instead of the other way round. Who knows, had we still been using our jaws, wisdom teeth would erupt vertical instead of horizontal. Just a few examples.

Beg to differ here. My experience showed they are pretty shallo an unreliable,not to mention untrustworthy and sometimes downright dishonest. On the Sunday face of it, they do try hard to pretend to being what they are not.

You're not getting what I'm saying. I don't mean they're trustworthy (in fact, I'm pretty sure they're flawed). I meant you can count on being able to connect with people at church. Provided you have the social skills to connect with other people anyway that is. Left to your own devices, the bar is pretty much all you'd consistently find people at, and they're invariably drunks or crazy lonely people. Churchgoing has a chance of giving you decent relationships or friendships. And it's not limited to Christianity. I could go to any temple (besides maybe Buddhist) and find my future wife given the right compatibility.

The bar? Well back in my day it was sports clubs, dances and discos. No harm in a pub but I met my wife at work. Earlier GFs and encounters of the sexual kind too many variations to mention. Club rate success was the least of these and that was pretty much going there to try and get laid. The longer relationships were through other channels.

Another example was beer gardens we had. You would go there meet girls usually evenings and then move on to go to a dance after pairing up. Getting wasted was not on the cards as we pretty much had tight budgets. Saturday mornings at a coffee house was also a place.

These were always better than the church meet ups at youth clubs as the churchy types pretend to be something they are not. We were all horny just not honest about it.

Perhaps your sheltered world view tells you that church is the safest but is it really? Maybe it is the new awkwardness of social media and devices that has left folk w/o the ability to actually interact in RL. The churchy types means you have to first conform to the flock mentality and impress potential in laws. A sports bar or club does not have these unnecessary rules of conformation.

Of course this is from my perception and my experiences. YMMV.

Not really, personal beliefs of theists would be left alone if they kept it private. My experience is that theists are the ones being nosey concerning personal beliefs. No theist will knock on your door and ask you "have you lost Jesus" or "can we take a few moment to tell you of our non church"

You will not find atheists handing out Darwin tracts at your church yet theist will have no issue bugging you at say mall or public parking place. More examples but you get the gist. Where I stay, this does not happen as we have privacy laws that override free speech, you may not even place tracts under a wind shield wiper or commercial for that matter.

Why churches do not use the papers beats me,they just have to be seen in false piety to be doing the lawds work.

The reason we have such heated debates in this forum, is because there are more than a few atheists that are as rabid as the people they debate against. No, they don't have tracts but... My point stands.

I disagree. Debate is useful and no one should take personal offence. Some guys could tone it down a notch but here is probably the only place we air our views. Your beliefs should be emotionless when discussions like this take place. Realistically, you are communicating in text so you are not hearing tone which would be great were that possible.

If we do not feed you to the lions, you will turn on each other and do that

You seem a reasonable theist so I have no issues in discussions with you.

Sorry for earlier typos, I was on my phone and I suck at that.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

But that is just the thing...we are not supposed to read it strictly literally (though of course some do).

Thats what I was going to get to. If you do read it literally, you get the results mentioned, if you read it with a grain of salt, you can have an enriching life experience.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

I could give 8 reasons why a purely secular view is an unhealthy way of thinking.

1. It encourages the idea progress for the sake of progress. Look at our today's technology. It's incredibly advanced right? Yea, it is, I won't argue with this. But rampant smog, overpopulation, economic recession on a global scale, and abyssmal birthrate are now problems that we have this progress to thank.

progress, despite the effects mentioned above, is still preferable to ancient times.

2. Far from some sort of divinely chosen people, humans are just animals. Yes, humans are also animals. But I'd like to think we've moved beyond being only animals, and that there's some purpose to our existence.

What about there being purpose to every animals existence?

3. It distances you from other people. A person who has only themselves to thank for anything that happens in life, is effectively cut off from things like gratitude or social connections.

I find doctrinal differences do this more so than not having social conventions to go to.

4. It removes a necessity of accountability. Without some sense that your life can get better/worse after death, you have to rely on mundane rewards/punishments to guide behavior. But if you're not particularly greedy, and stop being afraid of punishment this is pretty useless. You can do whatever you want, and then kill yourself before someone punish you.

Why can't we just be good people just because?

5. Cogs in the machine. The industrial revolution 9-5 schedule was a secular theor, that then go mandated to public schools. But people are not wired this way, it makes them stressed and unhappy. People should work until done with the job at hand, and go home to family.

Cogs in the machine, like go out and win as many souls for jesus as you can after your 9-5 schedule? You are never doing as much as you should be doing for god.

6. Speaking of family. In the race toward "equality" (an admirable goal if done well, but more places that use this word have) we've lost sight that getting along is more important to harmony than trying to be equal (which is based upon perception of fairness and can never be satisfied), winding up in more divorces.

If you don't get married, you won't get divorced. Although I will say that if you are going to have kids, it would be much more preferable for them to have a mom and a dad. But if you aren't having kids, do whatever you want.

7. From what I've seen, atheism doesn't value logic or reason any more than religion. Several time I've run into people saying they "know" this or that to be true. This is not a proof btw. A proof is "I know this works because..." is a proof.

*see other posts

8. Whether myths of religion are real or not, you can generally count on other people in the church. On the other hand the disconnect between yourself and other people is even bigger with one less place to hang out. Without firm ties to people and things around you, you slowly get more an more weird from getting locked out. Spending out hours alone on the computer, giving yourself to various obsessions, and so on.

Or you can go meet and hang out with all sorts of people and not only the ones in your church.

9. My way is the only way to believe. Same exact deal. Sorry.

Not really. I never stated that I was an atheist. I'm not trying to prove I'm right, I'm just trying to show some problems with literal christianity. I am more than open to criticisms of any other religion or nonreligion.

Since the behavior patterns are more aggressive, dangerous, and unhealthy in this case, yea, I'm gonna take exception at this.

Originally Posted by nateswift

I call myself a Christian and I didn't see anything in that list that I believe or recall being taught in the Bible, either literally or figuratively. Any scriptural backing for the assertions?

As far as faith and reason, they are different disciplines. One may reason from a position of faith in basic assumptions or from a position of denial of those assumptions which can not be empirically proven.

Dredre gave you half of them.
Anyways, #2, last verses of Revelation
#3 I know the verse, but ill have to look it up
#4 1st Corinthians 7
#5 let me look up that one as well
#6 genisis 3 and Revelations
#7 Proverbs and Deuteronomy ch 6
#8 too many to name