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We've been over this a thousand times, Arq. You can NOT claim the default for your position. There is no basis for it. THAT is the problem - assuming the default as if that is superior when there is only ignorance.
The issue is pretending that the default position is "no God" in the face of complete ignorance about the source of our reality. There is no more reason for it to be the default than the theist one. NEITHER position is the default, but the simple fact of the existence of everything, its scope, power, ubiquity, etc. bespeaks of SOMETHING very God-like as the source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
"The issue is pretending that the default position is "no Bigfoot" in the face of complete ignorance about the source of our reality."
"The issue is pretending that the default position is "no Aliens" in the face of complete ignorance about the source of our reality."
"The issue is pretending that the default position is "no Flying Spaghetti Monster" in the face of complete ignorance about the source of our reality."
Yes, it really does sound that stupid, Mystic. Fact is, most peoples default position is to not believe in something unless there is proof showing them otherwise. For you, you have your story and simply make things fit. This is truly ignorance.
I am always amazed at the lack of sound reasoning displayed by those whose worldview depends so much on it. Bigfoot, aliens, and FSM do not remotely encompass the characteristics of the source of our entire reality, the source of our existence and that of all life, the source of the components of the universe (or any multi's involved), the source of the physical and chemical laws that govern our reality instead of chaos, the source of consciousness, the source of the evolutionary processes, etc., etc. As forms of life, Bigfoot and aliens, are automatically excluded as the source. The FSM, being BOTH ludicrous and imaginary is also excluded. The appellation "God" has historically been used to describe the Source of everything that exists BEFORE the scientific revolution and enlightenment preferred more secular appellations. The ignorance about the Source provides NO BASIS for their preference over the more encompassing appellation - God. The very existence of consciousness, will, and intelligence within our reality belies any outright rejection of such characteristics as may be incorporated into various conceptions of God.
Oh look - he resorted to the composition fallacy again. And around the round about we go again. And it is - of course - everyone else but him that is engaging in the - how did he put it - "lack of sound reasoning". Perhaps using a mirror instead of a monitor will do that to someone.
I am always amazed at the lack of sound reasoning displayed by those whose worldview depends so much on it. Bigfoot, aliens, and FSM do not remotely encompass the characteristics of the source of our entire reality, the source of our existence and that of all life, the source of the components of the universe (or any multi's involved), the source of the physical and chemical laws that govern our reality instead of chaos, the source of consciousness, the source of the evolutionary processes, etc., etc. As forms of life, Bigfoot and aliens, are automatically excluded as the source. The FSM, being BOTH ludicrous and imaginary is also excluded. The appellation "God" has historically been used to describe the Source of everything that exists BEFORE the scientific revolution and enlightenment preferred more secular appellations. The ignorance about the Source provides NO BASIS for their preference over the more encompassing appellation - God. The very existence of consciousness, will, and intelligence within our reality belies any outright rejection of such characteristics as may be incorporated into various conceptions of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
Only because you don't believe in their existence.
No, whether or not they exist is irrelevant because whether or not they exist they are part of what was created eliminating their ability to be the source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus
Oh look - he resorted to the composition fallacy again. And around the round about we go again. And it is - of course - everyone else but him that is engaging in the - how did he put it - "lack of sound reasoning". Perhaps using a mirror instead of a monitor will do that to someone.
Composition fallacy is a BS refusal to address the origin issue objectively regarding the fundamental composition of consciousness as a completely unique aspect of reality. Small minds sailing on materialistic seas seem to flounder on the reef of such abstract conundrums.
I am always amazed at the lack of sound reasoning displayed by those whose worldview depends so much on it. Bigfoot, aliens, and FSM do not remotely encompass the characteristics of the source of our entire reality, the source of our existence and that of all life, the source of the components of the universe (or any multi's involved), the source of the physical and chemical laws that govern our reality instead of chaos, the source of consciousness, the source of the evolutionary processes, etc., etc. As forms of life, Bigfoot and aliens, are automatically excluded as the source. The FSM, being BOTH ludicrous and imaginary is also excluded. The appellation "God" has historically been used to describe the Source of everything that exists BEFORE the scientific revolution and enlightenment preferred more secular appellations. The ignorance about the Source provides NO BASIS for their preference over the more encompassing appellation - God. The very existence of consciousness, will, and intelligence within our reality belies any outright rejection of such characteristics as may be incorporated into various conceptions of God.
Mystic, old son, I almost reported you here, but out of consideration for you, didn't. You are hi -jacking the thread. This is about Lee Strobel and his claims about atheism, not about your personal theistic hypotheses, your muddled logic or your scorn for anyone who disagrees with you.
I am always amazed at the lack of sound reasoning displayed by those whose worldview depends so much on it. Bigfoot, aliens, and FSM do not remotely encompass the characteristics of the source of our entire reality, the source of our existence and that of all life, the source of the components of the universe (or any multi's involved), the source of the physical and chemical laws that govern our reality instead of chaos, the source of consciousness, the source of the evolutionary processes, etc., etc. As forms of life, Bigfoot and aliens, are automatically excluded as the source. The FSM, being BOTH ludicrous and imaginary is also excluded. The appellation "God" has historically been used to describe the Source of everything that exists BEFORE the scientific revolution and enlightenment preferred more secular appellations. The ignorance about the Source provides NO BASIS for their preference over the more encompassing appellation - God. The very existence of consciousness, will, and intelligence within our reality belies any outright rejection of such characteristics as may be incorporated into various conceptions of God.
It wasn't meant to show that they are the creators, it was meant to show how ridiculously stupid your argument is. I think it served it's purpose.... You say the default position is belief, but only when it comes to God. I was pointing out that this is childish, at best. Is your default position belief when it comes to things like Bigfooot? Nessie? Aliens? Giant Space Crabs? Or only when it comes to your already established religious beliefs????
Point is, whether you can be bothered to see it or not, is that your religious ideas hold no water. You can say, "God is everything" all you want, but you have no more proof for your assertion than we do. No, you just have a need, like other religious folk, to feel special.
Mystic, old son, I almost reported you here, but out of consideration for you, didn't. You are hi -jacking the thread. This is about Lee Strobel and his claims about atheism, not about your personal theistic hypotheses, your muddled logic or your scorn for anyone who disagrees with you.
Once you acknowledge that Strobel never was an atheist and simply used that ploy to reinforce his position, there is little else to say. In any case, I was responding to the same old insupportable nonsense of an atheist default. I admit that neither default is supportable, but the theist one at least addresses the undeniably God-like characteristics of our reality.
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