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Ahh, you're cute! You think you have me upset or something lol. The fact is, you are either purposely "not understanding" (IE: trolling), or you are incapable. It is spelled out in normal, non college level words and everything.
Settle down here. Let's assume we're two respectful people, both trying to understand our opposing views. We are coming from two very different perspectives, so it would be understandable if we may have trouble fully grasping every statement and argument the first time.
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Which is not teachings coming from your God, is it? It is teachings coming from MAN. I am not "stuck" on anything. I am pointing out just how irrelevant your holy book is in 2017.
The bible is actually quite relevant today. Millions of people find it to be enormously helpful, and there many lessons are directly applicable to today's life.
Will I defend every literal line you pull out of the bible? No way, and yes some were specific to the era and customs of the day. But Jesus teachings are quite relevant.
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That is not at all what we are back to. You are back to responding to what you want my post to say. The point has nothing to do with bad things happening. The point is, if your God were a human parent, he would have been thrown in prison from neglect. HE doesn't teach anything to humankind, and instead relies on a poorly written primitive book and regular old men. Maybe that is why the church is hemorrhaging pastors? They are tired of having no help from their supposed all powerful God. Who knows.
The only one "hung up" here is you Matthew.
When you went off with this line,
"Obviously it isn't very good help, rescue, teaching, and correction is it? You would think the almighty GOD could do something to help the starving people throughout the world and bring them to Christianity and the light or whatever. Instead, he let's them starve while trying to teach some obtuse lessons? "
that's when I gathered you were taking the 'bad things happen' viewpoint. Believe me, I'm not responding to what I want it to say, I really am trying to understand your words. If I don't understand you correctly, I'd say I'm only 50% to blame in our interaction. Sheesh!
Basically what you're saying is if every single pastor in the USA decided to leave Christianity God wouldn't lift a finger to stop them because of their free will. In theory, God would let the entire Christian faith extinguish if that's what man chose through their free will. News flash: it could happen at the rate Christianity is declining in the US.
Free will? The answer is yes, if every single pastor chose to leave the faith, sure. But does God not intervene, does He not guide? Of course He does! But I feel you may be looking for some supernatural body to emerge from the sky on a regular basis and literally guide people around. In reality He's a little more subtle than that. But if you think He's not working his ways, you're not searching for stories in the right places.
Free will? The answer is yes, if every single pastor chose to leave the faith, sure. But does God not intervene, does He not guide? Of course He does! But I feel you may be looking for some supernatural body to emerge from the sky on a regular basis and literally guide people around. In reality He's a little more subtle than that. But if you think He's not working his ways, you're not searching for stories in the right places.
Do you think the apostle Paul had free will when he encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus?
“Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your law [in Psalms 82:6], “I said, ‘You are gods’ � If He [God] called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, “You are blaspheming,†because I said, “I am the Son of God�’†(John 10:34-36).
Free will? The answer is yes, if every single pastor chose to leave the faith, sure. But does God not intervene, does He not guide? Of course He does! But I feel you may be looking for some supernatural body to emerge from the sky on a regular basis and literally guide people around. In reality He's a little more subtle than that. But if you think He's not working his ways, you're not searching for stories in the right places.
I must have been obtuse when I said I don't believe God will lift a finger to stop any pastor from leaving the faith, free will or no. Let me be a little more clear: I'm certain, based on past observations of how God reacts when 1500 pastors leave the faith each month, that God won't lift a finger to stop them.
These men, having a closer relationship with God than most of us, I'm certain have prayed and prayed and prayed some more, asking God, "What should I do, Lord? Stay or leave?" Do you think God spoke to their hearts and said, "Stay." Or did He say, "Leave." Or did He just not say a damn word? I'm inclined to believe the last one.
I must have been obtuse when I said I don't believe God will lift a finger to stop any pastor from leaving the faith, free will or no. Let me be a little more clear: I'm certain, based on past observations of how God reacts when 1500 pastors leave the faith each month, that God won't lift a finger to stop them.
These men, having a closer relationship with God than most of us, I'm certain have prayed and prayed and prayed some more, asking God, "What should I do, Lord? Stay or leave?" Do you think God spoke to their hearts and said, "Stay." Or did He say, "Leave." Or did He just not say a damn word? I'm inclined to believe the last one.
It's entirely possible that God calls men into ministry for a season. It's also entirely possible that men disobey and they go the other way. It's also possible that men are not called but simply think it would be a nice, cushy job...they're kind of suited for it.....so they do it. A lot of men go into the ministry for a number of reasons, and men leave it for a number of reasons.
I'd hardly suggest that men leaving the ministry means the church is drying up. God provides new pastors every every year from seminaries and Bible colleges. If there is a need for them, they will have places to serve. The bigger question is the state of the American church. God has nowhere promised the US church is going to thrive until the day Jesus returns. It may well dry up and waste away.
Actually...no. Jesus did not say we're all gods. Take a look at the context of that...he was really saying quite the opposite by quoting that. It's silly to think that he was calling us gods.
And yes--he is God. He is God the Son, the 2nd person of the Trinity.
...when 1500 pastors leave the faith each month, that God won't lift a finger to stop them...
I don't think that's a typo. Perhaps a key distinction in a lot of this is in how you may be interpreting the original article.
No where did it state nor imply 1500 pastors are leaving the faith each month. They are leaving the occupation of being a church pastor. That does not mean they have given up their faith at all.
So whether he guided them to leave or stay or even if he was silent, I don't think 2000 pastors leaving the profession each month has any reflection on their Christian beliefs.
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