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One cannot get into a PhD program without qualifying for it. Get selected to play first violin in an orchestra without talent and expertise. Qualify for Guggenheim fellowship which are awarded for those "who have demonstrated exceptional capacity for productive scholarship or exceptional creative ability in the arts."
So we are all endowed with some innate capacities, tendencies, and drive towards different achievements. Possessions of those qualities in abundance lead to success in that field. Middling gets us middling success.
Spirituality is no exception.
From another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
"created by the body" and "felt in the body" are not the same thing. i am distinguishing between them. you are not.
"created by the body" and "created by the mind" are not the same thing. you say they are the same. i differentiate between them.
it sounds like you are saying the mind and the body are the same. mind and body are not the same.
first you said "the body creates feelings" (earlier post) now you are saying "the mind and the body create feelings." and you say that since we experience everything as a human, then everything is physical. you lump it all together, and it appears you make no differentiation between the physical (body), the mind (intellect), the feelings (emotions), and the spirit (or soul). they are not the same. if someone lacks the ability to differentiate between them, then they lack the ability to understand and address the concepts being discussed. my observation is that lumping everything together is reductive and superficial. sort of like calling music "it's all just a bunch of noise" or "a bunch of sounds making racket." instead of being able to hear and recognize and understand and discern nuance, variation, and characteristics.
Spirituality, spiritual seeking, works the same way. Research has proven the more one meditates the more the mind expands efficiently. The more one does higher level mathematics, with concepts rather than hard numbers, the more effectively the brain functions.
If this is the case some spiritual concepts are just as hard to understand for some of us and we may have to work harder, learn to think differently, expand our capacities before we understand. That is also determined by our tendencies and drives. While I admire mathematicians who have prodigious capabilities, i have no desire to go there. But i have deep desire and tenacity to understand Advaita and practice it.
If you dont have such leanings and capabilities there is nothing wrong with you. You may just want to catch fish. But you will also never understand and that is ok as well.
And sometimes we also do things because we enjoy doing them and doing them for pleasure is sufficient.
I have no desire to be a Greg Lamond or Lawrence Armstrong but I enjoy road cycling but I also emjoy mountain biking.
I have no need to be the next Ansel Adams but I am better than middling of a photographer and darkroom worker.
Millions of kids enjoy hockey but few will be the next Connor McDavid, Wayne Gretzky or Carry Price. Being the cream of the crop, the best in your field requires more than great dedication but also lots of natural abilities. Being the best you can be in your job should be a goal but being the very best in your field is certainly not the goal of everyone. Thete is more to life than being the very best.
My BIL can play the violin, and also the piano, harp, the bagpipes and many other instruments. He has never been a professional musician but spends much of his retirement learning new instruments and gains much pleasure from that. My granddaughter on the other hand is working at being a professional singer songwriter and puts much more effort learning and practicing their craft. Both are doing what is best for themselves , different goals and expectations.
Using the examples of the very pinnacle of a career is not the best way to encourage others to do more studying into spirituality in my opinion.
And sometimes we also do things because we enjoy doing them and doing them for pleasure is sufficient.
I have no desire to be a Greg Lamond or Lawrence Armstrong but I enjoy road cycling but I also emjoy mountain biking.
I have no need to be the next Ansel Adams but I am better than middling of a photographer and darkroom worker.
Millions of kids enjoy hockey but few will be the next Connor McDavid, Wayne Gretzky or Carry Price. Being the cream of the crop, the best in your field requires more than great dedication but also lots of natural abilities. Being the best you can be in your job should be a goal but being the very best in your field is certainly not the goal of everyone. Thete is more to life than being the very best.
My BIL can play the violin, and also the piano, harp, the bagpipes and many other instruments. He has never been a professional musician but spends much of his retirement learning new instruments and gains much pleasure from that. My granddaughter on the other hand is working at being a professional singer songwriter and puts much more effort learning and practicing their craft. Both are doing what is best for themselves , different goals and expectations.
Using the examples of the very pinnacle of a career is not the best way to encourage others to do more studying into spirituality in my opinion.
Who do you think is encouraging you to do ANYTHING? That is not the point of the post, it is how certain achievements are results of not only effort but also capabilities we are naturally endowed with. I will not understand infinity the same way a mathematician can. That is my limitation. If i am driven to do so then i would have to make the effort to understand and not dismiss infinity as nothing.
Who do you think is encouraging you to do ANYTHING? That is not the point of the post, it is how certain achievements are results of not only effort but also capabilities we are naturally endowed with. I will not understand infinity the same way a mathematician can. That is my limitation. If i am driven to do so then i would have to make the effort to understand and not dismiss infinity as nothing.
However you brought up first violin, Guttenberg fellowship and PhD. The first two and to a lesser amount the third are at the top of their field. That is a lot higher than encouraging people to learn more about a subject. And that is my point
AND your infinity example was close to what i was getting at then your first violin example.
Who do you think is encouraging you to do ANYTHING? That is not the point of the post, it is how certain achievements are results of not only effort but also capabilities we are naturally endowed with. I will not understand infinity the same way a mathematician can. That is my limitation. If i am driven to do so then i would have to make the effort to understand and not dismiss infinity as nothing.
NATURALLY endowed with? Or, those endowments are result of long strand of existences, through which one perfected certain aspects?
Are you trying to say that not all people are born equal, what is foundation of the Constitution?
NATURALLY endowed with? Or, those endowments are result of long strand of existences, through which one perfected certain aspects?
Are you trying to say that not all people are born equal, what is foundation of the Constitution?
Constitution is made of rules by which a community agrees to live by, and which represents some values that we think will benefit all of us. It is never perfect since made by humans who are not perfect. So we then amend it from time to time to make it more perfect. It never said anyway that all men are equal, only that all white men are equal. Women and black people did not count.
Endowments are tendencies we are born with and it varies. How they result is a another discussion
However you brought up first violin, Guttenberg fellowship and PhD. The first two and to a lesser amount the third are at the top of their field. That is a lot higher than encouraging people to learn more about a subject. And that is my point
AND your infinity example was close to what i was getting at then your first violin example.
They are top of their field but they also are endowed with exceptional abilities. This post is not encouraging anything for anyone and i dont know why keep reading into it stuff that is neither there nor meant. Maybe if you pay more attention to what is actually said we can have productive dialog which is the only point of the post.
I dont understand your second sentence but if you got my point fine and dandy.
They are top of their field but they also are endowed with exceptional abilities. This post is not encouraging anything for anyone and i dont know why keep reading into it stuff that is neither there nor meant. Maybe if you pay more attention to what is actually said we can have productive dialog which is the only point of the post.
I dont understand your second sentence but if you got my point fine and dandy.
It is not that hard to get a PhD once you have your Masters. It is much harder to win the Guttenberg fellowship.
You certainly did not make your point in your first post.
And to answer three of your responses to me in one post
1) yes I know how to read, I've been reading for 65 years, have two university degrees and am not illerate.
2) I did pay attention to what you posted and read it a couple of times. Perhaps I didn't read what you intended,
3) I try to be respectful of posters I communicate with, even those who don't show much respect in return.
If you dont have such leanings and capabilities there is nothing wrong with you. You may just want to catch fish. But you will also never understand and that is ok as well.
Catching fish can be as spiritual as any other practice if that is what speaks to you and calms your soul.
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