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We cannot simply read the bible with an uneducated carnal mind and get anything but confused and misled into the wrong "state of mind" that Jesus came and paid a very dear price to exemplify. Jesus came to prevent the continuation of such unenlightened use of scripture. His commands to LOVE God and LOVE each other (agape . . . not sexual) are paramount and reflect the "state of mind" that precludes sin. ANY other "state of mind" is dangerous to our spiritual well-being.
Jesus is what our God is like . . . not the ancient primitive savages' interpretations of Yahweh. Christians place their FAITH in Jesus . . . NOT in the bible and the OT descriptions of Yahweh. Which do you think is CHRISTian? The OT set out the prohesies to enable us to IDENTIFY the CHRIST once he arrived. Jesus came to FULFILL the OT prophesies, explain the Spirit of the early laws and show us unmistakably what God is REALLY like . . . LOVE. 1 John 5:20 (King James Version)
20And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
John 3:33-36 (King James Version)
33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
John 17:26 (King James Version)
26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 02-14-2009 at 05:26 PM..
Reason: removed moderation comments
is that confession of blindness faith , or may i missed something !!!!!!
No . . . blind faith is foolishness. Jesus gave us the "state of mind" we need to have to avoid sin . . . that's what removes all the complications, confusions, and contradictions about how to properly develop spiritual maturity. LOVE God and LOVE each other . . . couldn't be simpler. Obeying in fear or expectation of reward is NOT the right "state of mind." Repentance is a replaying of prior sinful acts in remorse to help us to get into the right "state of mind." While in this "state of mind" . . . we cannot commit sin, period. Should we falter by leaving that "state of mind" . . . repentance and remorse brings us back.
I deliberately emphasized and repeated the phrase "state of mind" . . . because apparently too many Christians do not understand that it is our "state of mind" that determines our soul's development and ultimate fate.While we are in this body, our Spirit is but an embryo soul tied to God through the spiritual umbilical chord of Jesus's holy spirit. Death is the point of rebirth of our embryo soul into Spirit . . . as it was for Jesus. Scripture is all about developing the right "state of mind"(Spirit) with the example of Jesus and the guidance of his holy spirit.
The OT contains historical events and prophesies designed to validate and identify Jesus . . . not to retain and promulgate the primitive cultural rules, habits and laws necessary to train savages into modern civilized society. They were necessary to enable the primitives to become less carnal and more spiritual . . . but that "salt has lost its power" and the new "wineskins" brought by Jesus are all that is needed to contain the "new wine."
No . . . blind faith is foolishness. Jesus gave us the "state of mind" we need to have to avoid sin . . . that's what removes all the complications, confusions, and contradictions about how to properly develop spiritual maturity. LOVE God and LOVE each other . . . couldn't be simpler. Obeying in fear or expectation of reward is NOT the right "state of mind." Repentance is a replaying of prior sinful acts in remorse to help us to get into the right "state of mind." While in this "state of mind" . . . we cannot commit sin, period. Should we falter by leaving that "state of mind" . . . repentance and remorse brings us back.
i entirely respect your intensions : " LOVE God and LOVE each other "
and i hope really to feel it within discussions
what did you meant by that : Obeying in fear or expectation of reward is NOT the right "state of mind."
for me being a muslim i actually obey God in fear of his punishment and in loving and expectation of his reward .
so that i seek to know why it's wrong from your point of view ?
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I deliberately emphasized and repeated the phrase "state of mind" . . . because apparently too many Christians do not understand that it is our "state of mind" that determines our soul's development and ultimate fate.While we are in this body, our Spirit is but an embryo soul tied to God through the spiritual umbilical chord of Jesus's holy spirit. Death is the point of rebirth of our embryo soul into Spirit . . . as it was for Jesus. Scripture is all about developing the right "state of mind"(Spirit) with the example of Jesus and the guidance of his holy spirit.
entirly i like your thoughts
but what do you think the fate of sinfull christians will be ?
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The OT contains historical events and prophesies designed to validate and identify Jesus . . . not to retain and promulgate the primitive cultural rules, habits and laws necessary to train savages into modern civilized society. They were necessary to enable the primitives to become less carnal and more spiritual . . . but that "salt has lost its power" and the new "wineskins" brought by Jesus are all that is needed to contain the "new wine."
but Jesus (pbuh) in Matthew saying that he didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it
i entirely respect your intensions : " LOVE God and LOVE each other "
and i hope really to feel it within discussions
what did you meant by that : Obeying in fear or expectation of reward is NOT the right "state of mind."
for me being a muslim i actually obey God in fear of his punishment and in loving and expectation of his reward .
so that i seek to know why it's wrong from your point of view ?
Our consciousness is supposed to join God when we are born as Spirit into the next stage. It needs to have matured sufficiently before death to be able to do so (just as a physical embryo needs to develop sufficiently to enter this life) . . . or we can miscarry or abort. A soul that is still responding to the childish requirements of rules to receive rewards or avoid punishment is not mature enough to understand why the rules existed in the first place. (They do NOT exist just to be obeyed for no reason).
We understand this with our own children . . . we have rules when they are young that help them learn and mature into an adult "state of mind." They eventually learn the wisdom behind the early rules and can achieve the "spirit" of them BECAUSE THEY WANT TO . . . not for some external reward . . . the "spirit" of the rules are now a part of their own hearts and mature soul.
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entirly i like your thoughts
but what do you think the fate of sinfull christians will be ?
We all face the same fates depending on the maturity of our souls and the love therein . . . either failure as spiritual miscarriage or abortion (probably not very pleasant) . . . or successful rebirth as Spirit to join God in the next llife.
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but Jesus (pbuh) in Matthew saying that he didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it
He did fulfill it and brought us a truer understanding of the "spirit of the law" and the way to insure that we are maturing spiritually . . . in love of God and love for each other.
We understand this with our own children . . . we have rules when they are young that help them learn and mature into an adult "state of mind." They eventually learn the wisdom behind the early rules and can achieve the "spirit" of them BECAUSE THEY WANT TO . . . not for some external reward . . . the "spirit" of the rules are now a part of their own hearts and mature soul. We all face the same fates depending on the maturity of our souls and the love therein . . . either failure as spiritual miscarriage or abortion (probably not very pleasant) . . . or successful rebirth as Spirit to join God in the next llife.
you take the rule of children as to be your example , but what about the rules of society on matures , i think that it's important to fear prisons if they did wrong and it's important to expect the rewards to be successfull in his life if he did the right things
believe me mystick , if the society abolish the laws , don't expect from childrens you raised them in wisdom to live in peace without the laws .
we allready see priests molest childrens sometimes
if God really love his followers , he should to promise them by his rewards and he should to make them fear his punishment as well , this is effective way to keep his followers in obdience
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He did fulfill it and brought us a truer understanding of the "spirit of the law" and the way to insure that we are maturing spiritually . . . in love of God and love for each other.
fulfill what ?
jesus said that he come to fulfill the laws of mosas , not said that he come to fulfill the new understanding for laws of mosas !!!!!!!!!
you take the rule of children as to be your example , but what about the rules of society on matures , i think that it's important to fear prisons if they did wrong and it's important to expect the rewards to be successfull in his life if he did the right things
The mature adult does not need reward/punish to behave as an adult . . . they respond to their inner sense of right and wrong under self-control. That is what God wants . . . not obedient pets.[quote]believe me mystick , if the society abolish the laws , don't expect from childrens you raised them in wisdom to live in peace without the laws. My children do so, elwill.
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we allready see priests molest childrens sometimes
if God really love his followers , he should to promise them by his rewards and he should to make them fear his punishment as well , this is effective way to keep his followers in obdience.
There will always be immature souls among us . . . the fate of their souls will NOT be changed by their obedience because they are still too immature (not ready to be reborn).
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fulfill what ?
God's promise to send a messiah to teach us the true God and our purpose . . . Jesus redeemed that promise (That is called fulfillment).
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jesus said that he come to fulfill the laws of mosas , not said that he come to fulfill the new understanding for laws of mosas !!!!!!!!!
Wrong. Jesus came to give the Spirit of the law so that the less effective letter of the law would not be necessary. Love God and Love each other will produce the adult "state of mind" that writes all the laws in our hearts . . . like my adult children who are good because they are good . . . not for reward/punish nonsense. Which do you think God REALLY wants from us?
Wrong. Jesus came to give the Spirit of the law so that the less effective letter of the law would not be necessary. Love God and Love each other will produce the adult "state of mind" that writes all the laws in our hearts . . . like my adult children who are good because they are good . . . not for reward/punish nonsense. Which do you think God REALLY wants from us?
so jesus (pbuh) came to tell you : love God and love each other !!!!!!!!!!!
i think that mosas (pbuh) either teach his followers to love God and love each other , i think that all religions preach love of God and love of each other , it's not a big dial .
love God and love each other dosn't mean abolish of the laws of God
so jesus (pbuh) came to tell you : love God and love each other !!!!!!!!!!!
i think that mosas (pbuh) either teach his followers to love God and love each other , i think that all religions preach love of God and love of each other , it's not a big dial .
According to Jesus . . . it is the biggest deal . . . the two primary commandments that supercede and subsume all others.
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love God and love each other dosn't mean abolish of the laws of God
It means that laws are unnecessary if we are mature enough to possess that "state of mind." If we falter . . . repentance and remorse can regain it back.
It means that laws are unnecessary if we are mature enough to possess that "state of mind." If we falter . . . repentance and remorse can regain it back.
Everything has laws. Gravity, the stars, society, religion. Only God is above laws.
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