God's love vs Parental love. (Mormon, priest, Islam, believers)

[Reverend1111]

Only humans came up with the eternal hell thing. That is not God's plan. Humans have a corrupt way of thinking and they like to bring others to their way instead of God's way. God would never create to destroy. It would like if I build a house just so I could tear it down. Just plain stupid. We have to move wawy from an angry God to a loving God. It's that simple. Change our thought patterns to be more in line with God's. The bible is just stories and if we take it as that, we can find the true God in there and do away with the unnecessary junk that covers Him up. I personally don't read it but God can be found in there to be a loving God instead of an unjust and murdering psychopath.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

Apparently not. Complete freedom of choice, if it leads so many to unbelief, backsliding and generally becoming worthy of the eternal barbeque lovingly being polished up by the loving God in anticipation of a greater or lesser majority of His creation being roasted eternally, is not really in our interests.

The question here is if it was God who did all this or religion. I was brought up as a Christian but do not consider myself a Christian anymore because I distrust organised religion, but I still have total faith in God (read: love).
I doubt this would be possible without having free will.
Even in love free will is paramount; love is freely given.

FYI I simply don't believe in dogmas (thus I do not believe in an utopia like heaven).


Originally Posted by Reverend1111

Because biblers only believe in what they are told instead of going out and doing the search on their own. I read the bible and it did nothing for me.

I wouldn't say that the Bible did nothing for me, but I must admit that I'm not a Bible fundamentalist.
The Bible (and my parents) introduced me with Jesus' philosophy and so far that works for me.
I just don't believe that Jesus = God, but I do believe that Jesus is the way to God.

Never give up on the most vilest of sinners because someday, they may indeed become your teacher if they are taught.

Life has taught me that there are people who don't want to be saved or don't want to be redeemed and that there also are people who can't be saved (serial predators).
I only forgive those who truly repent and find forgiving those who show no repentance or who keep repeating past behaviour unfit for society.

It's different when you have no remorse for taking a life.

I agree.

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

He gave us a collection of 66 books and a church. Are you so selfish that you expect God to condescend to stand in front of YOU?

Why is that selfish?

Isn't the whole thing about knowing God?

Selfish???

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by nebulous1 Why do you believe that God hides?
Because he has given us free will so that we all are responsible for our own actions?

Isn't having the complete freedom of choice not the sign of ultimate love (read: God)?

Why do I believe God hides?
You have to ask that?
No one has seen God. No one hears him either, or they'd tape record him.


We are responsible for our actions.
But we don't have complete freedom of choice no way. Your bible says "God or Hell." Those are two choices. Complete freedom of choice would be to choose what you wanted, not two designated choices.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by nebulous1

No one has seen God. No one hears him either, or they'd tape record him.

So you don't believe in love either?
No one has heard love, or taped it.
Just because love is an abstract construct does it mean that it doesn't exist.

FYI the fact that you cant detect something means that it is hiding from you, it just means that you're unable to detect it.
The fact that humans can't see ultraviolet rays does it mean that these rays are hiding from us.

But we don't have complete freedom of choice no way. Your bible says "God or Hell." Those are two choices. Complete freedom of choice would be to choose what you wanted, not two designated choices.

A choice without consequences is not a choice either.

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by nebulous1 So you don't believe in love either?
No one has heard love, or taped it.
Just because love is an abstract construct does it mean that it doesn't exist.

FYI the fact that you cant detect something means that it is hiding from you, it just means that you're unable to detect it.
The fact that humans can't see ultraviolet rays does it mean that these rays are hiding from us.

A choice without consequences is not a choice either.

I don't get your logic, and I don't mean that in an insulting way...

Love is an emotion. God is supposedly a being.
You can see the effects of emotions or emotions being expressed.

Actually, we can see ultraviolet light with the right equipment. But again, you're talking about God, a being.

I can't pretend someone is there. I can't say because I can't "see" radio waves (which can be measured and detected), that this has anything to do with finding a God.

All of the analogies in the world won't make sense trying to prove there is a God.

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by Havik

Firstly, prison is not a punsihment. It is just someplace for the police to put away convicted criminals so they won't be a threat to the public. Secondly, it seems pretty stupid to pay for what you did in your life, which is like around 70-100, with an eternity in hell. Why can't you spend the same time you commited crimes in life at hell istead of forever so it balances out?

Just stupid.

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

That would certainly make more sense. And of course, if it was just a question of keeping criminals locked away from the public for the rest of their lives, there would be no question of letting any out before they are dead. The idea is paying for crimes and even being rehabilitated for rejoining the human beans.

As you pointed out, that is not what the judgement and hellfire concept does. Once you are in, brother you are in for good and no amount of re-education will get you out. It is, as you say, 'just stupid' and I, for one, cannot believe that a god worthy of a shred of respect could fail to come up with a better solution.

It's kind of ironic, how prisons are necessary for rehabilitation and keeping dangerous people off the streets, yet the eternal nature plus the delayed imprisonment of "God's justice system" renders God's attempt at justice an utter failure. So what's God's real motive for such a system?

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by nebulous1

I don't get your logic, and I don't mean that in an insulting way...

Love is an emotion. God is supposedly a being.

True, but you can't see emotions either.
And love is not just an emotion it is also a way of life; Jesus taught us to love others in the exact same way we want to be loved, so love can be the foundation of a philosophy.

I can't pretend someone is there. I can't say because I can't "see" radio waves (which can be measured and detected), that this has anything to do with finding a God.

So you admit that if people act according to Jesus' philosophy you can see God (or love)?

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

It's kind of ironic, how prisons are necessary for rehabilitation and keeping dangerous people off the streets, yet the eternal nature plus the delayed imprisonment of "God's justice system" renders God's attempt at justice an utter failure. So what's God's real motive for such a system?

There are two possibilities: to either say we can never understand God's mind, but we must trust him. he knows what he is doing and he is is good, merciful and Just. We know because his manifesto says so.

or

we can say it looks like the other religions; man's attempts to deal with the fear of death and the problem of evil. Why do the wicked prosper? It's all very well to have a police force, but surely the Just gods could take a few moments off turning themselves in to swans for the purposes of seduction to turn a few criminals into ash. The only explanation is to say the wicked get it after death. Because they sure don't seem to get it before death.

The trouble there is, that having a post mortem place where grinning devils saw the malefactors asunder tends to be too tempting for the Preists and preachers. They start to assign others to the torments, too. Unbelievers, believers in the wrong beliefs. Those who pull the girls the preacher's can't. The ones wo have fun the way the priests aren't allowed to. They can't be prevented from having fun in this life (though the god-botherers continually campaign for it) but they can be eternally punished for it in the next.

And then the pulpit -pounders discover a very useful side - benefit. Threatening the fun-loving with eternal torment, if it is presented graphically enough, frightens a remarkable number of them into the temples. Dressed up as a logical proposition by Pascal, it even looks logical, too.

[Ceece]

So you admit that if people act according to Jesus' philosophy you can see God (or love)?

I didn't get that from the post at all. You can't see god. Period. No matter how you "act".