What Are The Best Examples Of Prophecies From The Bible That Have Come True? (worship, doom)
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I think you confuse present day Tyre/Sur with ancient Tyre. Yes, today Sur/Tyre is "jutting out from the mainland" because is joined to the mainland by means of Alexander's silted up causewaybut at the time of Nebby/Alexander it wasn't. It was an island. It has also been pointed out to you on many occasions the the mainland part wasn't even called Tyre, it was called Ushu and in at least one of the links I gave you it says that Tyre and Ushu often fought each other. If that was the part that Nebby was prophecised to destroy, why then it is not referred to as Ushu in your Bible? Why did we not have The Siege of Ushu rather than the Siege of Tyre?
Utter nonsense man! If Constantinople was called that in the past, why is it called Istanbul today? Why is Stalingrad now called Volgagrad? Names of cities and even counties change. You're clutching at ever smaller straws Campbell.
Take it from someone who has been there and seen it for himself Campbell....Tyre or Sur as it is known today, stretches from the former mainland suburb of Ushu, across the causeway and onto the former island of Tyre....as can be seen from the photograph provided by our learned colleague Sanspeur. If you look at the bottom left of that photograph you can see the excavations of the Greek, Roman and Byzantine periods of Tyre. So if that area of excavations is on the former island of Tyre, why do you assume that the built-up area directly above it is not also on the former island of Tyre?
Bad analogy Campbell because it wasn't 1000 years before Tyre was rebuilt. In fact Alexander himself started to rebuild Tyre immediately after sacking it. It was an important strategic port and Alexander knew that....so he commenced the rebuilding immediately.
The Bible does not tell us that Tyre is a city, nor does it tell us that Nebuchandezzar was going to attack an island. It simply tells us, that Tyre was going to be destroyed. Now you want us to believe that Tyre was only an island. Yet historians will tell you, that Tyre was located on a small Island, and the mainland. You say the mainland city was called (Ushu), and because of this, it was not the city of Tyre.
Suggesting that (Ushu) was not part of Tyre, would be like suggesting that Chicago is not part of the United States. Tyre was located on both the island, and on the mainland. And in fact, Nebuchandezzar captured the king of Tyre on the mainland city of (Ushu). And when the citizens of Ushu escaped to the island. Historians stated that the (TYRIANS) abanodoned the mainland, and fortified themselves on the island. Clearly, historians have identified Ushu as part of Tyre, and that is why they called those leaving the city, (TYRIANS).
The world Book Encyclopedia. Page 541 "Part of the city stood on the mainland and part on an island"
A history of Ancient Israel and Judah By James Maxwell Miller, John Haralson Haye Page 360- "Ushu (ie the mainland settlement of Tyre)..."
Ideas and institutions in Western Civilization By norman F. Cantor-Pare 6-
"Ushu the mainland settlement of Tyre),..."
Sur, is not Tyre. And the God of the Bible directs his message to those who orginally lived in Tyer. God tells those residents. "I will bring you to a horrible end".
The mainland was destroyed by Nebuchadrezzar. And after that, the only thing left was the island city, and that was taken by Alexander the Great. And of the 32,000 people who were left in the city. Alexander crucified 2,000 men of military age, and sold the rest of the cities population of 30,000 people into slavery.
The main city of Tyre was built on the coast, and as I have stated, it is now underwater. The island city use to have 150 foot walls. We do not see anything like this today. And to suggest that this ancient fortress city has now been rebuilt, because we see some prefabricated housing. Well, that's a lot of nonsense. Show me a city with 150 foot walls, that would equal the ancient city of Tyre, and you would have a good arguement. Your prefabs? That's not going to do it.
I think the larger obvious determination here is just how it was "won". And that some posters might conclude that they actually did.
Some here seem to approach such honest topical debates with obvious denialism, beliefs of convenience, quote-mining, inattention to or purposeful ignoring of provided links, incessant re-chanting of things previously debunked, mis-quoting of credible people, reliance on now-disproven information from at least 50 year-old studies, against truthful, believable and validated information from, say, studies done this year.
All assembled into a working strategy to wear down the more intellectually honest.
When one realizes this is the approach by some folks, one tends to want to shy away in the future, no?
When one realizes this is the approach by some folks, one tends to want to shy away in the future, no?
Absolutely. I was warned about certain posters when I joined the forum but I find it very difficult to ignore such obvious misrepresentation of historical fact. Still, I suppose we should look on it as being useful in that it serves the purpose of demonstrating to those that read just what lengths some Bible literalists will go to in distorting the facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32
Rafius, it's like this:
"I have come to give myself up on account of I cannot fight no more against such genius."
I just hope the thread is not closed. I kinda hate that because you never know who may sign up tomorrow, next week, next month and care to respond to the original topic or what was currently being discussed. I petition for it to stay opened.
Absolutely. I was warned about certain posters when I joined the forum but I find it very difficult to ignore such obvious misrepresentation of historical fact. Still, I suppose we should look on it as being useful in that it serves the purpose of demonstrating to those that read just what lengths some Bible literalists will go to in distorting the facts.
Please Rafius, can you show us what historical facts were distorted? Tyre was to be found on both mainland, and island. And that fact is well established. So, where is this misrepresention? Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the costal city out of anger, because the (PEOPLE OF TYRE ESCAPED) to the island. It is the historians who are telling you, that the people from the coast. Were also the people of Tyre. If you don't want to believe that. Then blame the historians. We Bible believers, just agree with their conclusions.
Last edited by Campbell34; 12-30-2009 at 12:13 PM..
Speaking of Ezekiel's Tyre's prophecy flopping, here's another flopper from the book of Isaiah:
Isaiah 17:1-2:
An oracle concerning Damascus. See, Damascus will cease to be a city, and will become a heap of ruins. Her towns will be deserted forever...
Of course the apologist will claim that this is STILL yet to happen so within the relatively near future, we should expect this large city with a metropolitan area of 6 million people to be flattened. There is no way the apologist will accept the idea this is a failed prophecy despite the fact that the prophet Isaiah lived during the time when Syria (Damascus) was a constant threat to Judah. The chances are, as a result, the writer directed this prophecy of doom upon Damascus to assure his people his people that Syria would cease to be a threat.
This leads to this other flopper:
Isaiah 7:1-7:
In the days of Ahaz,...king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remaliah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it...And the Lord said to Isaiah “Go forth to meet Ahaz...and say to him, ‘Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint...at the fierce anger of Rezin...and the son of Remaliah. Because Syria...and the son of Remaliah has devised evil against you saying “Let us go up against Judah and terrify it and let us conquer it for ourselves...” thus says the Lord God: “It shall not stand and it shall not come to pass...”
Now compare that to this:
II Chronicles 28:1, 5-6:
Ahaz was 20 years old when he began his reign...[T]he Lord God gave him into the hand of the king of Syria, who defeated him and took captive a great number of his people...He was also given into the hand of the king of Israel who defeated him with great slaughter. For Pekah the son of Remaliah slew a hundred and twenty thousand in Judah in one day...
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All our heads hurt, frankly....
