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I remember some time ago I wrote somewhere (I don't even remember which board it was, but it was a discussion on what is right and wrong) that I thought it was OK for poor people to steal food and other stuff they need to survive. And I remember that people were all over me, asking if I was crazy, what was wrong with my sense of justice etc.
So I found it amusing when I just read this article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091222/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_shoplifting_ok - broken link) about a British priest saying exactly the same thing.
in the qua'ran is does say that under the circumstances your not to punish some one who steals out of neseccity...most want agree with this theory...but i just cant be mad at a person, who steals a sandwhich oht the store or something to fill there empty stomache...
The standard is God’s word not whether someone agrees or disagrees with our personal opinion. When opinion becomes the standard whose standard will prevail?
I remember some time ago I wrote somewhere (I don't even remember which board it was, but it was a discussion on what is right and wrong) that I thought it was OK for poor people to steal food and other stuff they need to survive. And I remember that people were all over me, asking if I was crazy, what was wrong with my sense of justice etc.
So I found it amusing when I just read this article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091222/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_shoplifting_ok - broken link) about a British priest saying exactly the same thing.
Well I agree with you, unless they are stealing from other extremely poor people, so if you're crazy I am as well.
I guess it also makes a difference whether they steal stuff at Walmart or a small family-run grocery store.
But I understand it is an issue that causes fear in some people. It touches upon basic questions such as whether or not our current economic and legal systems are human and fair, to what extent someone who cannot afford to buy food etc. is to blame for his or her situation, should we help people even if they were to blame for their miserable situation, can someone who has an empty stomach and follows his instincts even be called guilty of theft?
The standard is God’s word not whether someone agrees or disagrees with our personal opinion. When opinion becomes the standard whose standard will prevail?
Well, I guess it would be better to leave religion out of it. As you know holy books tend to be contradictory in their statements for reasons we all know.
But your question is indeed important. I guess it is society as a whole which is to determine its own standards, which of course may happen gradually without people realizing it, unless there is an open discussion.
No, it is not justified. It may not result in consequences, if the circumstances are known to the victim and they choose to have mercy. But the violation of property is *never* morally right. There are far too many possible justifications to give even a millimeter on this.
Consider the possibility of a woman who needs a kidney. Yours is the only match. Is she justified in paying someone to kidnap you, strap you down, and forcibly remove one of your kidneys so she can live? After all, it's a "necessity" for her and not for you.
Or what if it's not your kidney, but your car that she needs to get herself to the hospital. After all, being at the hospital is a necessity for her, and not for you. So it is justified that she steal your car. Right?
What if it's not your car, or your kidney, but just five thousand of your dollars. After all, if she can't pay the doctor, she dies. Doctors gotta eat too. And you can get by without that five thousand dollars. So it's justified that she steals it from you. Right?
Stealing is wrong. You, as the victim of theft, my decide what consequences to pursue, including "none" if you feel the theft against you is justified. But you don't get to speak for anyone else. Everyone else has the right to decide for themselves if a theft of their property is worth pursuing different consequences than you would.
No, it is not justified. It may not result in consequences, if the circumstances are known to the victim and they choose to have mercy. But the violation of property is *never* morally right. There are far too many possible justifications to give even a millimeter on this.
Consider the possibility of a woman who needs a kidney. Yours is the only match. Is she justified in paying someone to kidnap you, strap you down, and forcibly remove one of your kidneys so she can live? After all, it's a "necessity" for her and not for you.
Or what if it's not your kidney, but your car that she needs to get herself to the hospital. After all, being at the hospital is a necessity for her, and not for you. So it is justified that she steal your car. Right?
What if it's not your car, or your kidney, but just five thousand of your dollars. After all, if she can't pay the doctor, she dies. Doctors gotta eat too. And you can get by without that five thousand dollars. So it's justified that she steals it from you. Right?
Stealing is wrong. You, as the victim of theft, my decide what consequences to pursue, including "none" if you feel the theft against you is justified. But you don't get to speak for anyone else. Everyone else has the right to decide for themselves if a theft of their property is worth pursuing different consequences than you would.
Just a hypothetical, say a mother has to steal to keep her kid alive. Is that morally wrong? Which is more morally wrong, letting the kid starve or stealing? To make it an even tougher question lets say the mother is stealing from someone who is also poor. My point is, I don't think this is always as black and white as it seems at first glance. I honestly don't know if there is a right and wrong in some situations.
During hurricane Katrina people stole from stores to survive, was that morally wrong? I'm not talking about the ones who stole TV's and junk, I mean the ones who took stuff that was essential.
I would honestly have to say, that if my children were starving, and I tried every other possible way to get them food without success, I would steal something to feed them.
Would I ask God to forgive me, yes. Do I think He would forgive? Yes.
Just a hypothetical, say a mother has to steal to keep her kid alive. Is that morally wrong?
Yes.
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Which is more morally wrong, letting the kid starve or stealing?
That is an individual choice, isn't it? Wrong is wrong. Sometimes we do things we know are wrong, risking the worst possible consequences.
Sometimes we do things we know are morally right, and risk even worse consequences.
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To make it an even tougher question lets say the mother is stealing from someone who is also poor. My point is, I don't think this is always as black and white as it seems at first glance. I honestly don't know if there is a right and wrong in some situations.
There is. Again consider that the victim has much to say with regards to the consequences.
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During hurricane Katrina people stole from stores to survive, was that morally wrong? I'm not talking about the ones who stole TV's and junk, I mean the ones who took stuff that was essential.
Yes. It was wrong. Period.
Was it justifiable? Possibly, if the victim of the crime chose to view the thefts as justifiable.
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