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So here's the story and it's alternatives: We're either (1) going to be eventually incinerated by a super-nova-ing sun (as we've now witnessed with other older stars.... there's evidence for this version of reality!) or (2) the universe is only 6036 yrs old and God will come to save us no matter what.
Well, science will of course "out" in the end, and no matter what, unless some macro-meteorite unexpectedly smacks us into our next life some time in the next 3 - 4 million years (quite likely when you look at the probabilities...), if our Earth's culture is to survive, "we'll have to git outa this apartment" before the demolition crew arrives, man! Fact. We've got about 2 million years to work out the details, but we should probably be looking soon, given those danged meteorites....
So. Here we will have a major discussion issue, and I'm really and hoenstly curious how you all see it being resolved.
One the one hand we'll have the shrill pronouncements of the end-of-the world types who currently now claim to depend solely on God's holy kindness to save the believers. So why would we want them to be part of the space-limited earth-exit crew. I'd say we'd need about 300 - 400 minimum young-and-healthy logical types to man and socialize a lifeboat spacecraft outbound in search of some new home planet. Do we involve and invite dedicated Christians on board? Given their lifelong devotion to telling us we're wrong, and that God will take care of it all if only we'll believe?
The same ones who have for years denigrated scientific methods of discovery, of exploration and of intelligent decision making? Do we create space on the craft for the various denominations? The add-on "church module"? And who would get to go anyhow? The Catholic Church would no doubt try to buy their way on board, but the LDS types would assure us they'd finally break out the tablet. The Southern Baptists? The Jews? The Muslims?
Or would we wish them all a fine afternoon as we lit the final departure fuse? As in "You claim to have another way outa here, apparently. So have a nice trip!"
This of course also raises some questions about exporting our current racial tensions. I'd be all for first creating a sort of hybrid-race group, a sort of Halle Berry / Angelina Jolie / Xian Ling cross on the female side, and a Brad Pitt / Will Smith / Jackie Chan hybrid on the male side.
So... only one logical science-based "belief system" allowed on board, and with no room for improbable metaphysical mumbo-jumbo stuff, would there be great social unrest on "Departure Day"? If we did give in to allowing some theists on board, I'm thinking it would only lead to the first cases of space homicide!
I say let all the athiest go cause in the end, God doesn't care about religion. All He cares about is that we acquire the experience of this earth life and, seems to me, that most athiest have that down pat without bringing religion into it. All they need is the proof of God and things will be set straight for the religionists.
In a million years, none of will be here anyway so it doesn't matter one way or another right now. Besides, I'm sure there will be a new belief set and religion will be outlawed cause too many fight about who's right. i hope anyway.
It seems to me that if there were a deity, and if it cares about our behavior, it would be more interested in how ethically we live our lives than in whether or not we believe in a particular religion, or even whether ot not we believe in a deity.
rifleman: The Sun isn't massive enough to become a supernova. It will just be a plain old nova (but still enough to incinerate the Earth).
So here's the story and it's alternatives: We're either (1) going to be eventually incinerated by a super-nova-ing sun (as we've now witnessed with other older stars.... there's evidence for this version of reality!) or (2) the universe is only 6036 yrs old and God will come to save us no matter what.
What say you all?
Well, after I read your first paragraph, I kind of lost interest until I got to your last sentence. Since I don't believe in either one of your two alternatives, I'd say all you're really doing is trying to say that everybody who doesn't share your point of view is deluded or just plain unintelligent. Am I right?
NOTE: proselytizing is not allowed on these threads. Please read the OP carefully if you wish to comment. Love to hear your thoughts on my questions though.
Well, after I read your first paragraph, I kind of lost interest until I got to your last sentence. Since I don't believe in either one of your two alternatives, I'd say all you're really doing is trying to say that everybody who doesn't share your point of view is deluded or just plain unintelligent. Am I right?
Wow! Way to mis-read a thread! I'd say that it's you who doesn't want to participate with an open mind. But let's look at the tiny bit of commentary you did provide:
You don't believe that 1) we might get hit, EVER, by a life-ending meteor? How quaintly dismissive.
It's more than a little probable that astronomers, looking ever deeper into space these days, may well identify a comet or asteroid or meteor on an elliptical orbit course, passing this way in our future with little time to prepare for a globe-altering impact. But it may well miss us only to be calculated to hit us again on it's next pass, or the one after that. So, we'd have, let's just imagine, twenty years, or 150 years, to consider what to do.
Etc. etc. etc. etc. what's even more interesting is that you don't believe in such things. Look up my son; look up! (with eyes open though, not squeezed shut in prayer...)
Would you just take to praying as the sole option? No thought, not even the slightest consideration, that we could or should construct a super-lifeboat spaceship and get off the rock before it becomes a cosmic billiard ball?
Alternately, you don't believe that suns, when they burn themselves out, will go through certain changes ending in a big "pop"!. How quaintly dismissive.
Or, 2): that the young world of the Genesis story, often calculated to be only 6036+ years old, is divinely created and thus immune from any outlying impact destruction? That the Rapture concept will kick in before any meteoric impact (see near-miss documentation links above, plus, go visit that macro-crater out in Arizona if you don't believe we can and have been hit already...)
But I'm completely open; perhaps you have an alternate possibility. Why not share it?
_________________________________________________
So, you believe what then? Why not discuss it (on the appropriate science, not Religion & Philosophy, thread, I'll add. This thread correctly assumes one of these two things WILL eventually happen, given all the facts and evidence and stuff..)? On the other hand, my thread asks the question: IF we have to leave what limitations on race, species, beliefs, etc., will we have to impose. We can't ALL go, now can we? By then, let's say, it'd be 10 billion folks here? NICE!
"No crowding please; stay in your happy lines! Ignore that growing ball of fire in the skies."
(Obviously, humanity will have to leave here if it is to survive. Nothing lasts forever in his universe; it's always changing. Simple, logic, and proven if we just look up with an open mind).
The question was: when that time comes [and it will] , should we, as a race trying to get out of harm's way, and reviewing what we want to send off into space to represent the survival of our species (with whatever other DNA samples we can tuck into the freezer for later resurrection on our new home planet)specifically limit the cargo to, essentially, atheist/scientist/logician types, or should we also allow on board a contingent of each of the various religions. The ones who generally have denigrated science and it's discoveries, including that the sun will eventually "blow", for their entire life.
Having posed a specific question, and politely asked for your input on this particular subject, in what way have I impugned your opinion? Specifically on the subject at hand?
Better to say (as you sorta have I guess) that you don't have an opinion on my question. Keep to the topic OP, OK? You just don't like the idea that I might not let your future relatives on board? That's another thread, bud.
So here's the story and it's alternatives: We're either (1) going to be eventually incinerated by a super-nova-ing sun (as we've now witnessed with other older stars.... there's evidence for this version of reality!) or (2) the universe is only 6036 yrs old and God will come to save us no matter what.
Well, science will of course "out" in the end, and no matter what, unless some macro-meteorite unexpectedly smacks us into our next life some time in the next 3 - 4 million years (quite likely when you look at the probabilities...), if our Earth's culture is to survive, "we'll have to git outa this apartment" before the demolition crew arrives, man! Fact. We've got about 2 million years to work out the details, but we should probably be looking soon, given those danged meteorites....
So. Here we will have a major discussion issue, and I'm really and hoenstly curious how you all see it being resolved.
One the one hand we'll have the shrill pronouncements of the end-of-the world types who currently now claim to depend solely on God's holy kindness to save the believers. So why would we want them to be part of the space-limited earth-exit crew. I'd say we'd need about 300 - 400 minimum young-and-healthy logical types to man and socialize a lifeboat spacecraft outbound in search of some new home planet. Do we involve and invite dedicated Christians on board? Given their lifelong devotion to telling us we're wrong, and that God will take care of it all if only we'll believe?
The same ones who have for years denigrated scientific methods of discovery, of exploration and of intelligent decision making? Do we create space on the craft for the various denominations? The add-on "church module"? And who would get to go anyhow? The Catholic Church would no doubt try to buy their way on board, but the LDS types would assure us they'd finally break out the tablet. The Southern Baptists? The Jews? The Muslims?
Or would we wish them all a fine afternoon as we lit the final departure fuse? As in "You claim to have another way outa here, apparently. So have a nice trip!"
This of course also raises some questions about exporting our current racial tensions. I'd be all for first creating a sort of hybrid-race group, a sort of Halle Berry / Angelina Jolie / Xian Ling cross on the female side, and a Brad Pitt / Will Smith / Jackie Chan hybrid on the male side.
So... only one logical science-based "belief system" allowed on board, and with no room for improbable metaphysical mumbo-jumbo stuff, would there be great social unrest on "Departure Day"? If we did give in to allowing some theists on board, I'm thinking it would only lead to the first cases of space homicide!
What say you all?
I think we'll end ourselves long before a meteor or the sun does. It will take a miracle for humanity to survive the next century with so many fingers on the button and/or making superviruses and other fun ways to kill each other, plus a political world that is about as stable as green jellow at a funeral on a hot August afternoon.
If we are blasted back into the stone age and anyone survives, human evolution will take it's course and in a million or so years, we'll be as different as we are from Homo Erectus today. Of course, that doesn't mean we'll be any smarter. And, if life on earth is blown back to radiation resistant bacteria, there might be just enough time for intelligent life to evolve again before the sun burns out. If that happens, I imagine the first earth lifeforms to actually spread out into the galaxy will be some kind of squid.
So here's the story and it's alternatives: We're either (1) going to be eventually incinerated by a super-nova-ing sun (as we've now witnessed with other older stars.... there's evidence for this version of reality!) or (2) the universe is only 6036 yrs old and God will come to save us no matter what.
Well, science will of course "out" in the end, and no matter what, unless some macro-meteorite unexpectedly smacks us into our next life some time in the next 3 - 4 million years (quite likely when you look at the probabilities...), if our Earth's culture is to survive, "we'll have to git outa this apartment" before the demolition crew arrives, man! Fact. We've got about 2 million years to work out the details, but we should probably be looking soon, given those danged meteorites....
So. Here we will have a major discussion issue, and I'm really and hoenstly curious how you all see it being resolved.
One the one hand we'll have the shrill pronouncements of the end-of-the world types who currently now claim to depend solely on God's holy kindness to save the believers. So why would we want them to be part of the space-limited earth-exit crew. I'd say we'd need about 300 - 400 minimum young-and-healthy logical types to man and socialize a lifeboat spacecraft outbound in search of some new home planet. Do we involve and invite dedicated Christians on board? Given their lifelong devotion to telling us we're wrong, and that God will take care of it all if only we'll believe?
The same ones who have for years denigrated scientific methods of discovery, of exploration and of intelligent decision making? Do we create space on the craft for the various denominations? The add-on "church module"? And who would get to go anyhow? The Catholic Church would no doubt try to buy their way on board, but the LDS types would assure us they'd finally break out the tablet. The Southern Baptists? The Jews? The Muslims?
Or would we wish them all a fine afternoon as we lit the final departure fuse? As in "You claim to have another way outa here, apparently. So have a nice trip!"
This of course also raises some questions about exporting our current racial tensions. I'd be all for first creating a sort of hybrid-race group, a sort of Halle Berry / Angelina Jolie / Xian Ling cross on the female side, and a Brad Pitt / Will Smith / Jackie Chan hybrid on the male side.
So... only one logical science-based "belief system" allowed on board, and with no room for improbable metaphysical mumbo-jumbo stuff, would there be great social unrest on "Departure Day"? If we did give in to allowing some theists on board, I'm thinking it would only lead to the first cases of space homicide!
What say you all?
You know this is interesting and I think there is a greater probability of some asteroid or meteorite colliding with our Earth and extinguishing all life as we know it happening then some preconceived notion about a rapture ever happening. My opinion is that those that decide to venture into space to try and colonize another planet should be those of no religious affiliation whatsoever, I mean look at what all the different religions have done to our society to this point, it is taken good and well meaning people and turn them against one another all because of a belief, it has caused discrimination against one another, and has stifled scientific knowledge, it is the cause of the different classes of people, those who think they're better than others because they believe differently or not at all, I think if we were to venture out into space to look for another planet to colonize, no kind of religion should be part of it, if anything I would think that some of the books that should go on such a venture would be those of Socrates and Plato, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Robert Green Ingersoll and the like, for their open-mindedness and freethinking and I believe that a copy of the Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy as a guideline to govern themselves by would be quite acceptable. Just my opinion..
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