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Humbles us? LOL yea OK If I need to Humble my kids, do I mame and torture them, kill them? NO! There are many ways to Humble somebody, violence and suffering is a sick way. I think it is more a power trip, big ego ( as the first four commandments are all about him, not for our benefit) and a showing of force and complete lack of love for any so called GOD to treat his loved children ( so I am told) that way. I really dont see how wiping out innocent people, babies and such is humbling.
Hi Nea1 I bet you do humble your kids by disciplining them, or I hope you do. When my children were younger and acted up or got too big for thier britches, I grounded them or took away things and yes when they were real young, spanked them. It was not a power trip I did it to raise them as responsible adults which is my job as a parent.
God humbles us for the same reasons. He is creating us in his image. The time we are here is very small compared to eternity and God is preparing us for that. We may not understand or agree with what he is doing, but I trust God is doing the best thing for us. My kids did not like it when I discipined them either, did not agree with it and weren't happy about it, but it was my responsibility.
Also no one was wiped out, Yes many people died but we are all going to die. Some under horrible circumstance. They will all be resserected. We ask why and there is no answer we understand or want to accept. God is not a respecter of persons. He chooses the weak to humble the strong and the poor to humble the rich. None of these can suceed without God's help and that way he proves our dependance on Him. Everything is out of God we can do nothing on our own. All the evil in this world serves a purpose. We don't have to like it but we do have to endure it. In the end it will be to our ultimate benifit of being in the image of our Father.
Hi Nea1 I bet you do humble your kids by disciplining them, or I hope you do. When my children were younger and acted up or got too big for thier britches, I grounded them or took away things and yes when they were real young, spanked them. It was not a power trip I did it to raise them as responsible adults which is my job as a parent.
God humbles us for the same reasons. He is creating us in his image. The time we are here is very small compared to eternity and God is preparing us for that. We may not understand or agree with what he is doing, but I trust God is doing the best thing for us. My kids did not like it when I discipined them either, did not agree with it and weren't happy about it, but it was my responsibility.
Also no one was wiped out, Yes many people died but we are all going to die. Some under horrible circumstance. They will all be resserected. We ask why and there is no answer we understand or want to accept. God is not a respecter of persons. He chooses the weak to humble the strong and the poor to humble the rich. None of these can suceed without God's help and that way he proves our dependance on Him. Everything is out of God we can do nothing on our own. All the evil in this world serves a purpose. We don't have to like it but we do have to endure it. In the end it will be to our ultimate benifit of being in the image of our Father.
Yes I punish my kids, when they do wrong, not when they dont worship me. Punish, by grounding them, or taking things away, not by murder or torture. Yes everyone was wiped out, only Noah's family remained ( or so I am told) why? Was that baby down the street disobeying God? How about all those around the world at that time that knew nothing of any god? Did they deserve to be wiped out? You can make excuses all you want, that book is nothing more than an archaic, power trip written to instill fear and control in the people. Shame it is still working.
We could not cause suffering if God had not invented suffering in the first place. God made needless suffering possible. He did not have to, but he did.
If suffering did not exist, we could not inflict it on others or ourselves. God caused suffering to exist and made it an option for us. He did not need to. Anything we could have gained from the ability to cause suffering, an all-powerful god could have made available to us without the ability to cause suffering. If not, then he is not all-powerful.
Therefore, my argument is not in error.
I have a hard time understanding what you just said....God did not make suffering...Humans did.
For in the beginning there was no suffering to be had by those who complied to the will and word of God.
It is in the disobediance of God...that brings about dispare and suffering and even death!....so it is written!...
And in that understanding of what has been written....I stand as a testement to it....I see it, I know it...and I understand it...to my own state of being!
Polluting and poisoning and prohibiting the things we need to survive...does not make a health bed to lie in.
So who is creating the problems there?
Not sharing the givens God has given all living things.....makes for a very selfish and immoral estate....and the idol in use...makes death a constant...breaking the second commandment...and all the rest too!
So who is making the suffering?....not God..for God tried to stop us...and his son came to show us....Follow me he said...do as I do....
When it is fulfilled....then we are brought up before God....and placed back in the beginning...to tend and keep the garden well.....because we have seen what the opposite estate festors in to existance....pain, suffering, oppression, corruption, wars, and sickness and suffering!...destitution...crime, sins and evils...caused by the selfishness of the one who denies the creator of all living things and makes them not shared but bought..and horded..and even poisoned and prohibited!
ALL that is a human condition, brought on by a alternate mindset......made by and promoted as being free from God!
Now you have to recant...what you just said...cause what I just said is the truth.
The human made "world" is on its way to destruction and or destroying the EARTH...via industrial madness and pollution, poisons, and genetically unstable seeds, and warfare...and that IDOL which creates destitution, poverty and pain on many levels that are on the other side of the coin......say it aint so Joe.......and I will call you a liar.
Telling them not to eat or touch was rather pointless wasn't it, since he already knew that they would eat and touch.
Not sure But if God said don't do...and they did do...then these people or entities are then charicturized as being disobediant...and in disobediance the cause and effect is brought to bare witness against the truth...
This being...something at the center of the Garden is not to be touched...but is necessary to be at the center of the Garden always.
So taking it, and eating it...removed it...and caused something to change signs!!!!!
What it does then say...to be sinless...and to put it back where it belongs!....that is the lesson my Bible teaches me to do...and I try!
Which poses the question why, in that moment that this omnimax deity decided to 'create', did he do so when he already knew what a miserable failure his 'perfect world' would become, that he would have to destroy everything and start again and that the second attempt would also be an unmitigated disaster...so much so that he would have to sacrifice himself to himself in order to assuage the evil that he knew full well was going to happen.
In the light of the following...
In the light of not following...if you follow history....wars, sexual ludness, crime..and ofcourse the IDOL...which brings us to today....not following anything of the scriptures in truth,...not trying to sow all seeds and share with all life.....the human condition is failing, mutating, and becoming deasesed!,,,and the mindset is being bent to a selfish stupidity to pollute for profts and gains in laziness..
"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" Psalm 139:16
And the pure of heart shall see God!
......would you please explain how you can make any free will decision that will change what your god has planned for you? How do you make a free will decision that might change what is "recorded in his book"???
There is no free will...persay....either you do as is righteously knowing and doing for the greator good of all living things....or you move to the opposite estate...the path that leads to enevitable destruction of the world, and the Earth.....is that a free choice?...no..it is two opposites!
One leads to eternal glory with all life in toe.
The other one leads to a selfish end!
Pick one...and have it served you!
The thing is, there are only two paths...only right, and wrong.....and they are not choices we make...they are predetermined by God.
So there is no free choice really...only two paths...one leads to destruction...and one leads to a healthy earth teaming with life..in a healthy sound and eco friendly estate....all shared...and in the sharing we become like God...to know God..is to know life...and life is with many different things God made GOOD....So it is with this IDEA of being Good, that makes the conceptual order of things to come, once we see the estate that the wrong path makes...and the suffering, and corruption in that wrong estate...and all the human sacrifices, slaughtering, and imprisonment it holds...to keep them all on that path that is polluting, poisoning, and undermining the planet...till it is dead!
Some free choice?...doing what is morally correct for all living things...is putting the best foot foward....always!
Be Pefect...Jesus asked me to be...and so I try...and I try to do what I believe is in me to do...sow seeds sinlessly!...to make or restore something to its rightful placement in time!...So God can come, and stop the madness of stupid Human thinking it has a free choice....making doom of a planet, because it profits them to, and if you pay the taxes that support this madness..as it is...You are partners with it..and on that wrong path regardless....because of that IDOL of money, which is a engraven thing God said not to make or have!
So is you choice free?...No it is Bought, or you have accepted the imposed choice, by using the IDOL told not to...
And all the problems now festering in the world, and the wars, and the evils...all brought about because of it.....so what free choice are you talking about?
Stand out of her sins my people....is the only door left to take...which no one is willing to believe in....the path back to a natural co existance with nature...presteen and clean...simple living...tending and keeping and sharing life!
See...that is what Christ was promoting....and they slaughtered him!
The fear is in being a sinner..and knowing it...and the truth shows you that it is in you...knowing your sin....that is the fear you speak of.
Death is brought on by sin...sin being the disobediance of God.....as it is written....
torture is brought on by others onto others, who do not believe in God nor Christ...they GOD AND CHRIST expressly came to right the wrongs which create the sinner/Evils, and make the world a shared conceptual estate of sound mind under our hand...climatizing and making the Earth a paradise...and multiplying that out over the Earth and into the heavens......which overrules oppression, corruption, wars, hatreds, sins and evils, which are done under or for that IDOL of Engraven Images which is utterly and truly in difiance of God's second commandment, and hence forth breaking them all!!...and if we break one of those, we break em all as is now showing sign!!
The torture comes from them who continually say there is no God, and might makes right, and writes history.....and then they find You..and torture you....because they are in some way supported by the IDOL...which you hold in you hand as meaning something, or needing it for Life....when it is the complete and utter opposite truth which it brings for you.
And in that truth, You torture yourself with all the woes,Wrath,pestilences,pain, suffering, sinners, and evils that come upon those with it in hand or pocket, or mind or heart to need....eh?
The fear is in being a sinner..and knowing it...and the truth shows you that it is in you...knowing your sin....that is the fear you speak of.
Death is brought on by sin...sin being the disobediance of God.....as it is written....
torture is brought on by others onto others, who do not believe in God nor Christ...they GOD AND CHRIST expressly came to right the wrongs which create the sinner/Evils, and make the world a shared conceptual estate of sound mind under our hand...climatizing and making the Earth a paradise...and multiplying that out over the Earth and into the heavens......which overrules oppression, corruption, wars, hatreds, sins and evils, which are done under or for that IDOL of Engraven Images which is utterly and truly in difiance of God's second commandment, and hence forth breaking them all!!...and if we break one of those, we break em all as is now showing sign!!
The torture comes from them who continually say there is no God, and might makes right, and writes history.....and then they find You..and torture you....because they are in some way supported by the IDOL...which you hold in you hand as meaning something, or needing it for Life....when it is the complete and utter opposite truth which it brings for you.
Sorry not a sinner. Don't follow your little life guide book there.
Face it, your god is an evil twisted sadist. He doesn't love unconditionally or is loving at all. You FEAR this god, that is the only reason people follow.
The fear is in being a sinner..and knowing it...and the truth shows you that it is in you...knowing your sin....that is the fear you speak of.
Death is brought on by sin...sin being the disobediance of God.....as it is written....
torture is brought on by others onto others, who do not believe in God nor Christ...they GOD AND CHRIST expressly came to right the wrongs which create the sinner/Evils, and make the world a shared conceptual estate of sound mind under our hand...climatizing and making the Earth a paradise...and multiplying that out over the Earth and into the heavens......which overrules oppression, corruption, wars, hatreds, sins and evils, which are done under or for that IDOL of Engraven Images which is utterly and truly in difiance of God's second commandment, and hence forth breaking them all!!...and if we break one of those, we break em all as is now showing sign!!
The torture comes from them who continually say there is no God, and might makes right, and writes history.....and then they find You..and torture you....because they are in some way supported by the IDOL...which you hold in you hand as meaning something, or needing it for Life....when it is the complete and utter opposite truth which it brings for you.
And in that truth, You torture yourself with all the woes,Wrath,pestilences,pain, suffering, sinners, and evils that come upon those with it in hand or pocket, or mind or heart to need....eh?
God pretty soon meddled in the worlds affairs, we are told, when he brought the flood...so he is happy to stick his oar in when it involves punishment, but he HAS to stand by when it involves the relief of suffering of the innocent?
And what is with Him waiting for 1000's of years? Every day he hangs back from this great sorting out of the world is another day of abject misery for millions, which He could alleviate. There is NO reason for Him not to act immediately.
Oh..and I didn't know earthquakes and volcanic eruptions were a result of humans sinfulness.
God pretty soon meddled in the worlds affairs, we are told, when he brought the flood...so he is happy to stick his oar in when it involves punishment, but he HAS to stand by when it involves the relief of suffering of the innocent?
And what is with Him waiting for 1000's of years? Every day he hangs back from this great sorting out of the world is another day of abject misery for millions, which He could alleviate. There is NO reason for Him not to act immediately.
Oh..and I didn't know earthquakes and volcanic eruptions were a result of humans sinfulness.
That's because God isn't on the outside looking down. The answer is in each of us. Paradise isn't a place. It's a state of being. It's a consciousness. When we realize all suffering is chosen on the soul level, or a result of our making fear-based choices, or our warped view of the world, then we will realize that we have the power to end suffering. Instead of waiting on some guy to make things change, we have to realize we are the change. We have to take action by letting go of our inner fear if we ever want the proverbial Satan to be thrown into an eternal pit. Both "God" and "Satan" are within us, in the form of fear and love. When we make love-based choices, we choose "God." When we make fear-based ones, we choose "Satan." But as long as we continue to see love and fear as outside beings and not from within us, we will feel powerless to change and be stuck in our current condition. There is no being on the outside punishing us. Suffering is just a natural consequence of fear. It's not a result of an outside being's judgment of our deeds. The ultimate universal power is within. God is within each of us. It's up to us to graduate from Earth to Paradise on the mental-emotional level.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 03-09-2011 at 04:42 PM..
God pretty soon meddled in the worlds affairs, we are told, when he brought the flood...so he is happy to stick his oar in when it involves punishment, but he HAS to stand by when it involves the relief of suffering of the innocent?
And what is with Him waiting for 1000's of years? Every day he hangs back from this great sorting out of the world is another day of abject misery for millions, which He could alleviate. There is NO reason for Him not to act immediately.
Oh..and I didn't know earthquakes and volcanic eruptions were a result of humans sinfulness.
But he saves some worthy to be saved....let us not forget that little but oh so true aspect of God....
Those who do the will and fulfill the word...are the ones who enter Paradise.....
And I ain't seeing many of them yet...and no Edens of completion Yet ...wonder why?....maybe because they forgotten what they were made for?......and the proof is in the pudding!
Yah you may snarl at the truth...be it oh so true...But it ain;t helping the Earth nor the worldly estate of corruption now taking place...or the human sacrifices being made on both sides of any conflict...to die for the lie under the IDOL.....as it goes on, continually...READ the HISTORY OF HUMANKIND...since ROME or Go back to EYGPT where the IDOL was born into the JEWS minds....as something of value...which they brought with them into the wilderness.....and then Went out to murder, plunder, and take by force...killing in the name of who?.....and to this day it is still happening....
What about the commandment thou shall not Kill....is it that this does not apply to humans?....
And so the real truth is....humans cannot except the truths that have been spoken by God..and or his son...nor can they comply to reasonable terms of enlightenment about taking care of the Planet...as they chose to pollute it all...and in all pollute themselves!
Not withstanding...God is being made right...by us doing the opposite of what God asked us to do.
Now If I Know my God well...and he being the creator of life here...as it is written....then surely God has made life all over the place..in the universe, without us....
And why would God allow THIS HUMAN Race out of the box?...if we are none compliant, and so destructively stupid...?...and totally in disrespect of the living things living with us...and not with us...
That is how bent this is getting...not only on these forms...but in the world order of things humans are making and supporting...
Wonder why?
Oh Yah...God muddled in our affairs..???....when Humankind destroyed EDEN on their own accord....
Yah...why would God not try to help?...as it is, the word is here with us....the prophets were sent...the saints and monks spoke up....and the righteous were rounded up and slaughtered...and the son of God came...and he was slaughtered too.
So it is not because we were not forewarned..or foretold...or that it is impossible to fathom the truth about taking care of the Garden ideal....as it is not, but once was....and will come again...when people start choking on the very breath, the very food, and the very waters they now pollute!
Not much mindset goes into something like that...although they Claim they are intelligent.
eh someone hit me...I must still be dreaming.
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...and I will call you a liar.
