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We do walkthru's with that form in person with the tenant 99% of the time. Once in a great while for some reason, I have left the form on the counter for them with EXPLICIT instructions to finish it and return in a few days. I don't think my average is even as good as Lacerta's! I have to keep calling them to get it and once in awhile I never get it. Since we normally have lots of photos of a property at move in, or I have my own notes about it's condition it's not too big a problem on our side - however just wait until move out and you have to charge them for some touch up painting or additional cleaning. Form? What form? heck they don't even remember the dang form!
So. I'm moving in to a new apartment (Charlotte, NC, if it matters). Signed the lease (read it, too - it doesn't address this), paid the deposits and fees, paid the first month's rent, and was given the keys to the apartment. And then they very casually say that I have seven days to return the move-in inspection form and they'll give me the mailbox keys when I do.
After I left it occurred to me that that makes little sense, and may not even be legal. I mean, I'm not going to make a big deal out of it because I have every intention of filling out the move-in inspection form and returning it within seven days, and am not expecting any mail. BUT, what the hell? How is it a problem for them if I don't do the form at all? As I see it, it's mainly for MY protection -- if at move-out they try to charge for this that or the other, I can point to the move-in sheet and say, "nope - it was like that. see?". I would think that by failing to fill out that form I would lose all right to claim that damage existed at move-in, no? Isn't that to their benefit? They could charge me for every nick, dent, scratch, and ding in the place and I couldn't prove it was there at the start, right?
But I guess I'm just wondering... CAN they legally do this? I mean, if I refuse to fill out that form, can they refuse to allow me to access my mail? (Again, just curious. NOT actually refusing to fill out a form that benefits me, and that I agreed to fill out in my lease.)
This is just a wild guess...but I would say that the mail box is the legal property of the landlord. Therefore, he owns it and if your lease is silent on this matter, most likely (again a guess), he can hold your mail ransom. He is, after all, not "TAMPERING" with your mail, he owns the box. Any renter has the option of renting a post office box if they do not wish to abide by the landlords eccentric rules and regulations. There is no law on the books, to the best of my knowledge, that ENTITLES you to a mail box. But again, I could be dead wrong on this. LOL
Personally, just speaking for myself, I would get a post office box. I could not handle someone else controlling me like this. Even if, like you, I had no objections to filling out the form, I am just too much of a control freak to deal with someone else's power plays.
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There probably isn't a law against it but it's kind of a stupid thing to do IMHO.
As a LL, and in my state we are required by law to have a move-in/out sheet I don't give it to the Tenant. We do a joint walk through, take video and stills and do a sign off. I leave an additional form that if the Tenant finds something within 5 days that was missed they can fill it out and we will review the issue and either add it to the Move-in or fix it.
But I don't give ANY keys until the rent is paid, the utilities are transferred and the walk through is complete. Then I hand over the keys, welcome the person home and then I GET OUT OF THEIR LIFE unless they need something fixed, cause a problem or don't pay the rent.
As for withholding the mailbox key, I would actually be surprised if the USPS thought that was legal. They actually will not give landlords a copy of the key directly, at least not in my area. We have several new construction rentals that we started managing after closing, and the tenant had to go get the mailbox key from the post office, and bring US a copy, the post office would not let us have them. They said the ONLY person who has the right have access to the mail is the occupant, and the occupant cannot be denied access for any reason.
This may be true if this is a USPS owned unit. Most of those are located in post offices. If the USPS does not own the unit/mailbox kiosk, they have no legal interst in the keys or dispursement of the keys. To test this theory, just ask your mailman to provide you with a key. Unless you have a key that says USPS on it, the mailbox is not property of the post office. If you key says NA12/NA14/C0106/H21/H20/Hudson/Compx/NAtional/anything except USPS your mailbox is not owned/managed by USPS and they have no vested interest in the box.
Now, I think the apartment manager has to either provide you with your mail upon request or send it back to the sender. But I am unsure of the legality there.
Rockinmomma is correct regarding landlord owned vs. USPS owned mailboxes - except most new construction multi family these days are USPS owned units.
Theoretically, the LL has no right to take physical control of your mail but not giving you a key (as opposed to the LL taking the mail out of the box and holding it ransom) makes it a little murky.
If the mail stays in the box for several days the letter carrier is probably going to take it back and return it to sender. Best way to handle it is to call the station that delivers your mail and request the carrier remove your mail from the box, return it to the station and put your mail on "vacation hold" until you can get the situation resolved. Or if you are at the mailboxes when the carrier delivers the mail, he/she should be able to give you the mail if you have proper ID.
I spent 25 years dealing with just these types of situations so I think I can hold myself out as almost an expert.
Rockinmomma is correct regarding landlord owned vs. USPS owned mailboxes - except most new construction multi family these days are USPS owned units.
Theoretically, the LL has no right to take physical control of your mail but not giving you a key (as opposed to the LL taking the mail out of the box and holding it ransom) makes it a little murky.
If the mail stays in the box for several days the letter carrier is probably going to take it back and return it to sender. Best way to handle it is to call the station that delivers your mail and request the carrier remove your mail from the box, return it to the station and put your mail on "vacation hold" until you can get the situation resolved. Or if you are at the mailboxes when the carrier delivers the mail, he/she should be able to give you the mail if you have proper ID.
I spent 25 years dealing with just these types of situations so I think I can hold myself out as almost an expert.
You are correct Okey. I didn't think through the LL actually posessing the mail. To do that S/he would have to take it out of the box, which is illegal.
As for new construction being property of USPS, that may be true in your area, but here the post office is only in charge of post office boxes.... at the post office (as opposed to apartment kiosks and mail box stores). As a matter of fact, many of our post offices are closing in the early afternoons. In our area, the USPS just doesn't have enough $$$ to be mailbox police for apartments.
If the mail stays in the box for several days the letter carrier is probably going to take it back and return it to sender. Best way to handle it is to call the station that delivers your mail and request the carrier remove your mail from the box, return it to the station and put your mail on "vacation hold" until you can get the situation resolved. Or if you are at the mailboxes when the carrier delivers the mail, he/she should be able to give you the mail if you have proper ID.
If you haven't gotten keys because you haven't turned in a move-in checklist yet, would you be receiving mail so soon? Even if I do a change of address form a month before the move, I typically don't get mail at the new place until I've been there for a month.
I've seen this 'move-in checklist for mail keys' done at all of the apartment complexes I've ever rented at.
I usually don't use their form, which always seems to be tiny and not able to hold even a fraction of the information, I always type up a list, divided by room, then print out two copies - each copy gets signed by me and landlord, they get a copy, and I get one. On their copy, I'll staple it to the original checklist, with a huge 'see attached' on it. So far, I've never had a landlord claim they never got the checklist at move out..
There appears to be an assumption being made here. Just because they stated you would get your key when you hand in the form doesn't necessarily mean if you pushed the issue they wouldn't give it to you.
Believe it or not, in many states landlords are not required to provide on-site mail, and it's actually considered a convenience/ammenity. If they're provided by the apartment (as opposed to USPS), and if on-site mail is not promised in your lease, and if you're not in a 'right-to-mailbox' state like California then it's up to them if, when, and on what terms to grant you on-site mail. Note, you can force them to hand-over any mail of yours they're currently holding.
But...it's not what she asked. I love your posts, though, keeps reminding me
of how anti-tenant you are.
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Good info...
