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Old 07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
 
4,918 posts, read 22,678,621 times
Reputation: 6303

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbieh View Post
Would we have a chance in small claims court if this check doesnt in fact clear??
You will have no chance to win and you may be liable for any cost they incured as a result. You also misunderstood what the legal aide person told you.

When a check is sent to a person, you have every right when you submit it for payment that you will receive the funds. A person can be found guilty of fraud if they present a check and payment is not remitted due to insufficient funds, closed accounts, stop payments or any reason outside your control. The check receiver may also be allowed to recoup any cost associated with that refused check. However, if you are informed that the check will be refused, all you have is a debt that still has not been paid. Once your aware that the check will be refused, if you deposit it, you did it fully knowing it will be refused and you have no claim. All you will accomplish is havinga return check fee and technically may be responsible for any fee the sender incured due to you depositing a check you fully knew wasn;t going to be honored.

What the legal aide person told you was since you still had it and didn;t deposit it, and was told not to deposit it, you have no lost. The issue of what money is owed to you is another matter.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Downtown Harrisburg
1,434 posts, read 3,922,132 times
Reputation: 1017
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbieh View Post
My husband wants to deposit this check tomorrow and Im not at all comfortable doing it. I dont want the fee. I do believe since she went out of her way to call us and tell us we were receiving the money and sent us a check that we are deserving of the money. Are we out of line? Would we have a chance in small claims court if this check doesnt in fact clear??
Long story short, they sent you a check, then told you not to cash it because it was sent in error. Maybe they didn't literally say "in error", but they told you it shouldn't have been sent and that there was a stop payment on the check.

You absolutely could file a lawsuit in small claims court if you wish. Anybody can sue anybody at any time. By all means, if you feel that doing so is an appropriate course of action, then good luck.

You'll need to double-check your local laws, but this would most likely be a small-claims case. Before filing your claim, you'll need to read up on your local Rules of Civil Procedure (google "(your county) rules of civil procedure"). This will explain what evidence is admissible, what isn't, how to present your case, and so on and so forth.

Next you'll want to review the laws relevant to your case. This includes but is not limited to checks, rental / tenancy, contracts, and fraud. You'll also need to research prior cases, because precedent matters just as much as the law itself. What if caselaw shows that not only is your landlord not liable for the check, but you are in fact liable to her? Perhaps there have been prior cases of someone cashing a check after being verbally notified of a "stop payment", then being found liable for liquidated damages of $2500 per check.

You'll also want to take a look into criminal codes that might apply. Is knowingly cashing a stopped check a crime in your locality? How much jail time will you and/or your husband do for cashing a check that you know to be bad? The maximum fine here is $5000 per incident. What is it in your state?

You can either pay a lawyer to do all this for you, or do it yourself through a paid service like Lexis. You can also spend time in a legal library researching your case. You can also go the free route of Google, but you get what you pay for.

Then you'll need to file your lawsuit. In my state, filing for $1300 would cost about $120 with fees and service by sheriff. Your costs will vary.

Then your court date will come. You will have to appear in court and make your claim. Your landlord will also appear and make her claim. She may have a lawyer with her -- some states permit lawyers in small claims court, others do not. Though I haven't seen this personally, some states may permit her to file a motion to remand the matter to the local circuit court, which is generally much less friendly to pro-se litigants. If this applies in your venue, you should research the proper process, formatting, and timeline for filing motions in response (again, available through your local rules of civil procedure).

You may win. You may lose. Even if the law is on your side, and caselaw is on your side, and the judge hates landlords, and the sun is shining and it's happy la-la day in court, you could still lose. Worse, the landlord may file a counterclaim against you for things like defamation and court / legal costs over bringing such a frivolous claim. You should at least research these topics before your court date, find out what statutory damages are prescribed, and find out what defenses work well AND apply to your scenario.

Be prepared to explain to the judge why you cashed that check, even knowing that it was no good, and even knowing that it was sent in error, and why despite all that, you are entitled to damages. And remember, if / when the landlord presents a counterclaim, you need to raise a valid legal defense (not an excuse or an explanation) against that, and that defense has to be applicable under the law.

Your best possible outcome is that you will get your security deposit back, minus the deductions explained to you. Your worst possible outcome is civil damages to the landlord plus criminal charges against you.

I'm not saying all of the above is directly relevant to your particular case. None of us can say without knowing every detail of your situation, including your local laws. For all I know, your local laws may say you're completely right and your landlord was completely wrong. Maybe there's a law that says "no landlord shall issue a stop payment on any check for any reason at any time".

But you should know how ridiculous your threat of a lawsuit sounds. The court system is not a toy. A courtroom is not a live version of Judge Judy. You will almost certainly lose, will almost certainly face liability for both your bank's bad-deposit fee and your landlord's bank's stop-payment-deposited fee, will possibly face criminal charges, and may face a counterclaim by the landlord.

All because you're trying to cash a check that you know to be bad.

The posters in this thread have been very polite, but your idea is colossally bad in every possible sense of the word. If you do decide to file a lawsuit, please keep us all posted with the results.

Last edited by DowntownHarrisburg; 07-27-2011 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Downtown Harrisburg
1,434 posts, read 3,922,132 times
Reputation: 1017
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
The issue of what money is owed to you is another matter.
This is the single most important quote in the thread. Cashing the check creates a separate issue. If the tenant wants to dispute the amount owed (which the landlord now alleges is zero), they should handle that matter separately from the check itself.

Cashing the check -- no matter what "her husband" thinks -- is an unbelievably bad idea.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:05 AM
 
5 posts, read 12,580 times
Reputation: 10
Thank you to all who have responded. Great advice.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: New York
104 posts, read 342,283 times
Reputation: 108
@ the OP, if I am reading you correctly the property manager sent you a check with a detail listing of the fees being deducted from your security deposit. These fees seem to include a 500.00 fee for breaking your lease and a cleaning fee.

This list should have came after you did the walk through for the move out. Once the walk thru for the move out is performed and the property manager sends you a check and a detail listing of what you are to receive they are obiligated to pay you your money.

In other words they cannot hold your security deposit until the place is rented out. The only way this maybe done is that you agreed to it on your lease.

Read you lease then go to your public library and look up the guidelines for security deposits on rentals in your states.

While you are doing this write back the property manager and state in writting that if your security deposit is not returned to you in a reasonable amount of time (30 days) you will be moving forward with legal action in which they will be responsible for as additional fees.

What I think is taking place here is that the property manager sent you a check in good faith and the LL began to think wait I can't rent this place out and change his/her mind. The property manager then began thinking well, I will send the check along with a breakdown and maybe they do not know the law.

In certain states you only have a limited amount of time to dispute these items. So send the letter ASAP!.

If you sold her a product or performed a service for the property manager and she sent you a check and informed you the check was going to bounce and you deposited anyway knowing that was the case then you would not have a case.

This is not that type of law, the security deposit was held "in escrow" for any damages to the unit, non payment, or any other actions that would break the lease agreement. - You guys broke the lease, the fee was charged the damages was charged with the carpet cleaning and that is it the remaining is to be returned back to you.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,665 posts, read 69,690,877 times
Reputation: 26727
My final opinion is that this thread has been hashed enough to render it a total mush which even pigs in a communal trough would turn up their noses at. The OP is reading but neither absorbing nor hearing.

OP, I hope it all works out for you but best you let go of all the possible dynamics.

You signed a contract, you broke it. You are legally liable for everything contained in the original lease agreement, period. A judge MAY determine that mitigation between LL and tenant is a factor and it's also clear in most jurisdictions that under no circumstances can a LL "double-dip" on rent.

You really should feel extremely lucky.

ILoveLL123, extremely tired but your response shows little knowledge of basic rental law. Some facts en pointe but others very subjective and reliant on local judges' rulings. My apologies for not being either more precise or concise but a nap is in store after a very busy day which started 13 hours ago and scheduled appointments which, in just a few more hours, will have me up for several more hours! Yikes.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:56 PM
 
Location: New York
104 posts, read 342,283 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
My final opinion is that this thread has been hashed enough to render it a total mush which even pigs in a communal trough would turn up their noses at. The OP is reading but neither absorbing nor hearing.

OP, I hope it all works out for you but best you let go of all the possible dynamics.

You signed a contract, you broke it. You are legally liable for everything contained in the original lease agreement, period. A judge MAY determine that mitigation between LL and tenant is a factor and it's also clear in most jurisdictions that under no circumstances can a LL "double-dip" on rent.

You really should feel extremely lucky.

ILoveLL123, extremely tired but your response shows little knowledge of basic rental law. Some facts en pointe but others very subjective and reliant on local judges' rulings. My apologies for not being either more precise or concise but a nap is in store after a very busy day which started 13 hours ago and scheduled appointments which, in just a few more hours, will have me up for several more hours! Yikes.

STT thanks for your comments but I didnt ask for them. I gave the OP accurate information based on my 7 years experience working for a law firm that handles landlord tenant issues - thank you
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