Owner terminates contract with PropManCo *after* we'd checked out (tenant, renter, deposit)
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We rented a house three years ago through a Property Management Company. We gave the PMC a month's deposit. For three years, we paid the PMC the rent.
Near the end of our contract (renewed each year for a year), we notified the PMC that we would be moving out two weeks early. We scheduled with them to meet and do a check-out inspection. We did. They were impressed by the condition of the house, and we signed a form acknowledging such, and that there were ZERO damages. They asked for our new address and said they'd be returning the complete deposit to us.
FF two weeks. We received a certified letter from the PMC stating that the owner had terminated her relationship with the PMC a week AFTER we'd already checked out, and that the owner had requested and received our deposit. Now we are supposed to contact the owner about getting our deposit back.
We have no contract with the owner that I know of; my understanding is that our contract was with the PMC. In fact, the re-up for final year states that the PMC is the landlord. Furthermore, the PMC had been in possession of our deposit. The owner has not contacted us about the deposit, or contacted us at all since we moved out.
Can the owner's terminating the contract with the PMC cancel OUR contract with the PMC that states we get our deposit back? Since we have no contract with the owner, I don't see how we can be legally required to deal with her for return of our deposit. We did, in good faith, check out with the PMC at the time of our checking out.
??? Also, my understanding of the BASIC requirement is that, if there are "damages" or charges at the end of the lease, that the landlord (in our case, I thought the PMC) is to provide an itemized list to us within 30 days of the end of the lease. The PMC obviously had none. If the owner does, SHE needs to contact US, minimum, not the other way around.
So there's multiple questions, I guess. One is if the owner can basically fire the PMC AFTER we'd checked out and, I would expect, with very little notice (since it was a week after we'd already checked out; and at the time of checkout, the PMC did not indicate any change of management), and hold onto our deposit, despite our having fulfilled our contract by checking out with the PMC.
Thanks so much for advice!!! I feel, rightly or wrongly, that the owner has essentially stolen our deposit, since I don't understand how she has a contractual obligation to even give it back to us.
We rented a house three years ago through a Property Management Company. We gave the PMC a month's deposit. For three years, we paid the PMC the rent.
Near the end of our contract (renewed each year for a year), we notified the PMC that we would be moving out two weeks early. We scheduled with them to meet and do a check-out inspection. We did. They were impressed by the condition of the house, and we signed a form acknowledging such, and that there were ZERO damages. They asked for our new address and said they'd be returning the complete deposit to us.
FF two weeks. We received a certified letter from the PMC stating that the owner had terminated her relationship with the PMC a week AFTER we'd already checked out, and that the owner had requested and received our deposit. Now we are supposed to contact the owner about getting our deposit back.
We have no contract with the owner that I know of; my understanding is that our contract was with the PMC. In fact, the re-up for final year states that the PMC is the landlord. Furthermore, the PMC had been in possession of our deposit. The owner has not contacted us about the deposit, or contacted us at all since we moved out.
Can the owner's terminating the contract with the PMC cancel OUR contract with the PMC that states we get our deposit back? Since we have no contract with the owner, I don't see how we can be legally required to deal with her for return of our deposit. We did, in good faith, check out with the PMC at the time of our checking out.
??? Also, my understanding of the BASIC requirement is that, if there are "damages" or charges at the end of the lease, that the landlord (in our case, I thought the PMC) is to provide an itemized list to us within 30 days of the end of the lease. The PMC obviously had none. If the owner does, SHE needs to contact US, minimum, not the other way around.
So there's multiple questions, I guess. One is if the owner can basically fire the PMC AFTER we'd checked out and, I would expect, with very little notice (since it was a week after we'd already checked out; and at the time of checkout, the PMC did not indicate any change of management), and hold onto our deposit, despite our having fulfilled our contract by checking out with the PMC.
Thanks so much for advice!!! I feel, rightly or wrongly, that the owner has essentially stolen our deposit, since I don't understand how she has a contractual obligation to even give it back to us.
Contact the owner and then name both the owner and the PM in your lawsuit.
You don't say if you attempted to contact the owner to return the deposit. First step is send a certified letter with a copy of the check out form requesting the deposit. Make sure you give a proper address for the deposit to be returned.
I don;t think the PMC should have given the deposit to the owner, too late for that.
You certainly may be making way more out of this than you need to. As others have stated, contact the owner and ask for your deposit back. If you get it back, no point getting all worked up about it.
One way to handle this may be to wait until after the required days for sending you a list of damages has expired before contacting the owner. This would hopefully prevent any shady action by the owner trying to say there were damages.
Thank you for your feedback. Despite the fact that the owner knew our (previous) address, and the fact that she knew my husband's email address (because she's been contacting him on and off over the past three years), he only just now received an email from the owner.
Her story is that she didn't like the PMC, so fired them (I'm guessing after the 19th of June, and with no notice. Can she do that? I thought PMCs had contracts with owners requiring 30d notice etc, too), and hired the old co-worker (the PMC had split mid-contract) to be new PMC. The new PMC did another walk-through and came up with charges, and hired cleaners, and apparently there are now charges against our deposit (despite the fact that PMC at time of our check-out had been impressed and okay'd the return of our entire deposit).
New tenants apparently moved into the house before the end of the month, per the utilities when we tried shutting them off (so prolly around June 28).
Owner's email states she's just now getting the info from new PMC with photos and will be looking at them next week, and will send us photos once she looks at the stuff.....but it's gotta already be past the 14 day window of her new inspection (since tenants moved in), and we have not received an itemized list with the remaining deposit. Not that she even mentioned sending an itemized list + deposit.......
So, again, I think the owner's holding our deposit illegally hostage.....
1) Did she illegally fire the PMC? Dh thinks that if both sides are ok with immediate termination, then it's ok to not have notice. Can I ask PMC for their contract details?
-I still have trouble understanding how the owner can invalidate our *signed* check-out stating we get the entire deposit back.
2) A side note.....can the PMC just give the owner our deposit money? I saw another thread where the owner could not obtain the deposit from the fired PMC without a release from the tenant.
3) I think none of the above matters because it must be >14 days since the "new" inspection, and we have not received an itemized list+remaining deposit from the owner. She could have easily sent it to us at her house (and then it would've been forwarded), but she says in her email that the new PMC is only now getting around to sending her data.
4) Just curious......I've read the law and I'm confused about one point. It says that the deposit should be returned within 30 days of move-out "and" termination of contract. If we moved out AND checked out with the PMC mid-month and was no longer in possession of the house at ALL, is it 30 days from then, or still 30 days from end of month, since that's when the contract is til?
What I suspect is part of the problem is that our initial PMC was a partnership, which dissolved mid-occupancy. I don't think it's a coincidence that the agent who listed the house (who was the other partner) and the worker who was drop-kicked from the company in the split took over at the end. The agent was in our house at least one time under false pretenses (it made me feel weird at the time, and in hindsite I realize that's what it was. He said he had an agent bringing someone thru at x time, and I said it didn't matter cuz I'd be gone for all afternoon. He was there at x time without a client. I came back 30 min later (I had a change of plans; he didn't see me) and he was leaving on his own, and another agent was there with a client. I never saw him with a client. When I called him to ask him what was up (because I was driving in circles with young kids and two dogs in my car), he was surprised and said he didn't tell me about change of plans because he thought I'd be out all afternoon. Anyway, so I think he was doing inspections and telling the owner things about the house for two reasons. One is that he wanted to sell the house, but it was not OUR responsibility to make it "sell-ready". I worked my butt off to clean it for showings, wanting to help the owner. But tbh, sure, if I was trying to sell, I'd re-paint, and plug up all the holes *they* left (we didn't need to make any new ones, there were so many!), put in new carpet, etc. But I was a renter, and normal wear-and-tear is part of the contract. Who knows how old that carpet was. But I'm sure the agent wanted the owner worked up in order to motivate the owner to improve it for selling (it didn't sell, but the market bites there, and the house was overpriced, as it was three years ago). AND apparently, it worked to the benefit of his old co-worker because then the owner transferred business back to the agent's old co-worker. No collusion or coincidence there, huh?
Let me reiterate: we were great tenants for the three years we were there. My husband often fixed things that were broken, or notified the PMC when something was significantly wrong (like grading problems resulting in basement flooding; we never did get reimbursed for drying out our stuff) to prevent long-term damage to their house, etc. We DID clean the house for showings, despite the fact that the agent kept calling at the last minute even tho we had made a deal for 24 hr notice, all to the detriment of our kids. And we DID clean prior to moving out, and felt confident that everything had been done satisfactorily, per the PMC.
To have this dragging out........makes me sick! Thank you for thoughts!
I would just tell her that it's not your problem if she decided to change managers - you have a contract and you have rights and she has to abide by the law. The property manager who was engaged at the time of the checkout deemed the property to be satisfactory, within the required inspection period. That is all that would stand up in court.
You need to sit down with a lawyer and figure all this out. If you don't want to pay a lawyer fees then you can bluff to the owner and file a suit in small claims court for the deposit. They may just return the deposit at that time, if not then go to small claims court and lay your story out to the judge.
This owner, and the management company is in some pretty deep doo-doo in my opinion. Your contract was with the PMC not the owner nor the new company. The PMC signed off that you left the house in good condition. They should have returned your deposit then closed out the account and sent a statement reconciling with the owner - two separate transactions that are apples and oranges to each other. I do not know the law in your state but here, if that exact thing happened to us, (and occasionally it has happened, where a tenant moves out and then the owner decides to change companies for some reason) we proceed as usual as far as the tenant is concerned and settle up with the owner when his account is able to be closed.
Find out the deadline for return of deposit with statement and supporting documents for any cleaning or repairs, and demand your full deposit back from the owner.
Keep us posted.
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