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Basically we need to move out of here supposedly by End of June, however we received the notice July 6 or 7 and not served just mailed, so defective from my understanding. Thus we do not need to move out.
So a few questions I hope someone can answer:
- For a new notice effective July 31 it would have to be served no later than July 1 (in person) correct?
- Anything later than that can only be effective by end of August correct?
- If a holdover case i s brought against us we can just use the defective notice to get the case dismissed from my understanding. The Landlord would then have to serve a proper notice and we can stay until then.
Can you get the recored erased if won and the landlord had no grounds for the case essentially?
Conclusion for me, as long as the LL does not know the notice is defective and does a holdover or eviction case it seems they will lose based on the non serving and late notice. Any objections here?
Furthermore can someone PM me a good lawyer and what they did charge you (if you used them). So far I have only hourly offers roughly between $3-400.
I'm not sure that your understanding is correct in that the notice must be given to you 30 days in advance. If you were given a "notice to cure" which you ignored then a notice to quit would immediately follow that.
What you're being quoted for attorney fees is well within the ballpark. You could also contact the local Bar Association or Legal Aid for their recommendations.
Sorry, I should have been more precise. Have been looking at it too long.
Basically month-to-month agreement with a 30 day notice. I am talking about this 30 day notice. We have always paid on time and the apartment also looks 100x better than when we moved in.
So basically I came to these conclusions after reading the tenant guides etc:
- Notice has to be served and IF no one can be served then mail a copy by regular and certified mail.
- Just mailing to begin with is NOT considered being properly served
- Notice needs to be given by end of month to be effective end of next month, or latest the first of the specific month IN PERSON only.
- Holdover cases without proper served notice will be dismissed by judge and LL will have to serve a new notice.
Any objections to the above from anybodies experience?
So my conclusions are :
- No need to move out as neither 30 day period was obeyed nor were we even served.
- Holdover case will be dismisses as no proper serving.
- As long as LL is not aware of reason will just bring a regular holdover case just to then find out they had their paperwork wrong.
What I am not clear on is:
- Can the court record get deleted if the LL is at fault at the end?
- Do I owe anything for End of June until case dismissed?
- How long does it usually take to get a court date?
- Can the landlord start anything other than a holdover case? We always paid on time and did not do anything else against the lease terms.
So as far as fees are concerned the original lease includes that the winning party of a lawsuit can claim their fees, which in this case would obviously be us given the wrong paperwork.
Your situation is unclear. You're on a month-to-month tenancy and you received a 30 day notice to vacate because the LL desired to end the tenancy? If that's the case, then the notice does not need to be delivered in person; mail is sufficient. If you stay past the 30 days, then you are holding over and LL can evict you.
If you've been given notice to leave and you're still holding over past that date, then LL needs to follow the proper eviction process. It would be helpful if you could let us know exactly what you're being served with, and a little background on your situation.
As for your concerns, notices don't need to be given only at the end of a month; they just have to be consistent with the 30 days, so a June 15th would have to have a date of July 15th, for example. June 2nd would equate to July 2nd, and so on and so forth. If the dates are wrong, yes, a judge would probably dismiss but LL would then file notice with the proper dates and you'd need to vacate within 30 days anyway. As to your case being dismissed on a technicality, that won't happen; the notice you were given won't be considered adequate and legal notice but if the facts of the case are that you're illegally holding over, all the LL needs to do is give that proper notice and the case will still go on. A misstated date on the note is not a "get out of jail free" card that completely invalidates the LL's claims.
Yes, you owe rent until the case is dismissed; just because you're in a dispute with your LL, it doesn't give you the right to not pay rent. Not paying rent will actually give the LL valid claims to evict as you're breaching the contract you have with the LL, and those are valid grounds for eviction. Getting a court date can take a while, except for holdover cases; those usually get expedited in Housing Court. As to whether a LL can start anything other than a holdover case depends upon the specifics of your situation, which you still have not shared; the LL can terminate the lease and, so long as they do it properly, there is nothing you can do about it.
Yes , month-to-month LL wants to end it as they are selling. From what I understood it needed to be 30 days before the 1st of the next rent cycle (according to NYC tenant laws).
Thus later than 1st would not be sufficient for the end of the same month. Furthermore it states 30 day notices need to be served and if they cannot be served they must be mailed, one copy regular and one by certified mail.
Neither of this has been done and I understand the landlord will have to just file a new correct notice, which if the case will be by August won't be effective until end of september.
berniekosar19, did you base your answer on nyc tenant / ll experience? SOme of your answers seem to be the opposite from what I have been reading in the official guidelines
Yes , month-to-month LL wants to end it as they are selling. From what I understood it needed to be 30 days before the 1st of the next rent cycle (according to NYC tenant laws).
Thus later than 1st would not be sufficient for the end of the same month. Furthermore it states 30 day notices need to be served and if they cannot be served they must be mailed, one copy regular and one by certified mail.
Neither of this has been done and I understand the landlord will have to just file a new correct notice, which if the case will be by August won't be effective until end of september.
berniekosar19, did you base your answer on nyc tenant / ll experience? SOme of your answers seem to be the opposite from what I have been reading in the official guidelines
Yes, from actual NYC experience. If you're on a month-to-month tenancy and LL wishes to terminate, he's not required to serve you in person; a letter that's mailed to you will suffice for sufficient notice.
Here is the appropriate information from NY's Real Property Law:
Renters who do not have leases and pay rent on a monthly basis are called “month-to-month” tenants. In localities without rent regulation, tenants who stay past the end of a lease are treated as month-to-month tenants if the landlord accepts their rent (Real Property Law § 232-c).
A month-to-month tenancy outside New York City may be terminated by either party by giving at least one month’s notice before the expiration of the tenancy. For example, if the landlord wants the tenant to move out by November 1 and the rent is due on the first of each month, the landlord must give notice by September 30. In New York City, 30 days’ notice is required, rather than one month.
Landlords do not need to explain why the tenancy is being terminated, they only need to provide notice that it is, and that refusal to vacate will lead to eviction proceedings. Such notice does not automatically allow the landlord to evict the tenant. A landlord may raise the rent of a month-to-month tenant with the consent of the tenant. If the tenant does not consent, however, the landlord can terminate the tenancy by giving appropriate notice. (Real Property Law § 232-a and § 232-b).
So, as you can see, in NYC it's not one month's notice but just 30 days; so as long as the dates on the notice are consistent with that, the LL is within the confines of the law. The way you have described your situation, you are implying that your LL is trying to evict you; that's a far different situation than trying to end a month-to-month tenancy.
How has the LL provided you notice that they wish to terminate your tenancy?
Simple 30 day termination notice to end tenancy. Not served, nor delivered 30 days prior, thus before June 1. If I read tenant guidelines it states notice must be served (NYC tenant guidelines) and obviously ahead of time. So either one should me the notice defective until a proper new one is served. If that is after July 1 it cannot be effective before end of august.
All you will do by fighting this is gain a month at most. Your time is up, move.
It seems that even though you received the notice later than it should have been given to you, you've made no attempt to find alternate accommodation but want to play this out on a very basic technicality. I'm not sure why you can't see that this is going to turn around and bite you.
You've had almost 3 weeks to look for something else and as soon as the LL files his case in court that's where the record is going to be recorded and sit whether you go through the process or not and whether or not you prevail. Future LLs don't care whether you win such a case or not - the very fact that an eviction was filed against you and is on the record is enough to dissuade many from accepting you as a tenant.
How much simpler it would have been if you'd called the LL when you received the notice and said, "Hey, you haven't given me the full 30 days so can we have another week?" Your LL may well have agreed and you probably would have found something else in those three weeks anyway and not needed the additional days. Common sense. Now all you're going to do is alienate the LL, end up having to move anyway but have a filed eviction on the record and a LL who'll not be inclined to give you a good reference.
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It seems that even though you received the notice later than it should have been given to you, you've made no attempt to find alternate accommodation but want to play this out on a very basic technicality. I'm not sure why you can't see that this is going to turn around and bite you. 
