Can a tenant, who never signed a lease agreement, demand money back?

[NY Annie]

Originally Posted by sware2cod

You shouldn't have asked her to give the key back. Giving the key back is part of formal turnover of the place to the landlord(aka possession). Giving the key back is the the last part of moving out. She had rights to the key until the final day she was living there. When you requested the key back, she read into it that you were kicking her out immediately because you were asking for immediate possession by requiring her to give back the key.

IMO, you should give her the prorated rent money for the days she doesn't live there because you requested her to move out immediately when you asked for the key to be returned. You trumped her move out notice by asking for the key immediately. You cannot do that. You are supposed to allow her full access until she moves out.

Also - you shouldn't have demanded immediate payment of prorated rent from Jan 22-Jan 30. That would have been due on Jan 22 since the 22nd is when the monthly rent is due. You were wrong for asking for addition rent prior to the due date.

Your 2 wrongs above are pretty bad. She works for an attorney. She will take you to court and you don't know what you are doing and you likely will be required to return her money AND pay an attorney fee and court costs.

Give her the money back for the days she didn't live there. And then learn about your laws so you won't screw up with a future renters.

Originally Posted by Rabrrita

The laws generally doesn't require the tenant to comply, the laws are written most often to protect the tenant for just the attempt. The key issue (no pun intended) was the asking for the keys back while the tenant still had full legal possession of the premise AND was never served any notice by the landlord. I can not see a Judge siding with the landlord on this one. It was just a teeny weenie tiny stupid mistake by the landlord but with huge consequences.

We tell tenants all the time that is doesn't matter what they think is right or what they think is within their rights, it only matters what the law says is their rights! - well its a two way street and in this case the landlord is made the mistake.

I'm in 100% agreement with both of these, especially the red/bolded.

Additionally, the landlord made the egregious error of "punitive retribution" action by demanding the key prior to the tenant's surrender.

OP, as a landlord in this situation, you threw away your paddle and your canoe is heading for the falls.

1. tenant is getting legal advice; and you haven't even read the laws under which you are operating - which may even be that of a boarding house since tenant did not pay for a full month at a time;

2. you breached at least 2 landlord responsibilities: demanding the key "right now", and stating you will keep the security deposit. In some states, you cannot use security money for rent owed. But nonetheless, you threatened the tenant with financial punishment.

Take your losses on this one and pay her the entire security deposit and pro-rate the rent for the time she actually remains in possession of the room/apt. Anything less and you will be spending a day in court. You will not only be responsible for what you owe from the date you demanded the key but will most likely be assessed punitive damages for "retaliation" as well as court costs and fees.

[missleelee_2007]

But if the tenant had stated in a text that she had intended to move out that Friday and that the deposit was mine to keep, does this still apply? I asked for her key back, but the key was never handed over to me. Even so, I never told her that she was not allowed back in the house, I simply told her that I didn't want a bunch of random people in my home without me being present. It's so complex and complicated, I'm not sure what to do. She left a few belongings here but I haven't heard anymore from her since. I'm not sure if she's going to drop the issue or if she is plotting something in the background.

[STT Resident]

As long as she has belongings in the place and hasn't returned the key, she's a tenant. According to the written notice she gave you she has until 1/30 to move everything out and return the key. If she does, then you follow state law, returning her security deposit less any deductions for damages or unpaid rent. If there is still a balance outstanding the accounting you send her will reflect that.

If she doesn't move everything out by 1/30 then you dispose of her remaining belongings in accordance with state law and can change the locks.