Landlord keeping part of deposit & charging for past repairs (FL) (lease, tenant)

[dlcinfl]

Moved out of home 8/8 after renting 2 years. Prop mgr told us owner was selling or moving in himself although the property was relisted for rent at higher rent within a week after we moved out. Listing used pics taken by property mgr day we had move out inspection (8/9). Despite FL law saying owner had 15 days to return full deposit and 30 to notify in writing by certified mail of deductions, we didn't get letter until 9/12. Homeowner didn't inspect property himself until 9/1 according to text from property manager (a realtor friend of owner who told me she was doing him a favor managing it for him). Owner dated letter 9/5 sent via priority mail, not certified, and label on it said 9/9. Letter contained money orders dated 9/10 (date printed on front when purchased). So, he tried to make it look like he was sending to us in time when he didn't. USPS tracking showed he printed priority label at self service kiosk 9/9 but wasn't scanned into facility until 9/12. His 30 days were up 9/8 because of Aug having 31 days. Guess he forgot that!

Anyway, he sent money orders for $1070.61 less than the total deposit we paid. Here's what he deducted for:

1.$400 to repair patches of grass due to lack of watering
2.$345 for re-sodding 3 patches back in 2014 because sod man said died due to lack of watering and irrigation meter set at 20 min not the 40 recommended.
3. 25.48 for 4 bags of rock salt in water softener
4. $45 for 18 burned out light bulbs
5. $5.13 new AC filter
6. $250 trim shrubs and tall bushes grown into roofline and weeding in rock beds

Now, I vehemently object to most of these charges. The patches of grass he resodded in 2014 were 3 smallish spots that were damaged when we moved in. Prior to this I'd asked lawn care/pest control man about them and said I thought they were chinch bugs from neighbor. He said he thought watering more would help and didn't say if he would treat for chinch bugs. I asked when they were going to re-sod if they were using the same lawn guy and they were. Told them I thought it was partially issue with their not treating correctly since rest of lawn looked so good. I was ignored, they resodded it and had irrigation system checked. Sprinkler system was set on timer and I was told by the handyman the property manager used that the system had been lowered to 10 mins. I told him it hadn't been lowered it was set at whatever they set it on prior to our tenancy. We didn't know how to work the system and was told at move in it was set where it needed to be. We never touched it. In letter the owner is saying we changed it and was set to 20 mins not the 40 mins he was told by the lawn guy it should be on. I was angry about this because we left it at whatever the handyman changed it to (apparently 20 mins) and the only time it was changed again was after I called prop mgr and told her it was running one day too often per local watering laws and asked it to be changed. Handyman came out & adjusted it and never changed it again after that though I told him when he was there we weren't going to touch it because we didn't know how to adjust it & weren't going to be blamed for doing so. Now he's trying to not only blame us for lack of water causing those spots but also for the prior sodding! Also, the backyard that he's charging to repair didn't have grass when we moved in. It's very shady. We have family that saw it on move in and can attest to the fact.

I know the water softener system needed salt. We put 2 bags in the month before we moved but the system is messed up (handyman said it's fine even though water was regularly pouring out of it and down driveway). Salt dissolved within 2 weeks and we didn't want to put more in since they weren't repairing the system.

The a/c unit is a major point of contention b/c we had so much trouble with it. Prop mgr kept saying homeowner was unemployed and couldn't afford to replace a/c unit though repairmen said it needed it. It broke more than 6 times in the 2 yrs we were there and we had to change filter every 4 wks and they were filthy! Kept asking for them to fix it (filter wouldn't fit properly b/c of something sticking into that area so dirt got in there quickly) but the no money story kept getting repeated. We put a new filter in 2 weeks before we moved and it was over 5 weeks from time we moved to time owner came to inspect it.
I'm sure it needed changing. same goes for shrubbery and weeds in bed. Shrubs were excessively tall and always were from time we moved. We trimmed them very often and couldn't trim them to a regular length or they'd be bare on top. We addressed this with prop mgr first 6 mos we lived there and she never said we could make them shorter even though we wished we could. They were a real pain. I paid someone to trim them the week we moved. He said same thing about length/bareness if made short. The weeds in rock bed grew quickly. No weed barrier under rocks allowed weeds to grow! As far as bulbs go, there were 4 out when we moved. Home has 75+ interior lights. Forgot to change the 4 that were out but I have no idea about the other 14 he says were out. Maybe lights left on with people viewing property or who knows what. I can't imagine 14 more bulbs going out in those 3 weeks after we moved, but they were working when we left.

Anyway, now I plan to send demand letter for remainder of our deposit. Since he exceeded the 30 requirement and didn't send certified mail nor give the 15 day time for response before keeping our money, I'm sure I'd prevail in small claims court and tell him so in the demand letter. He'd have to pay court costs and attorney fees. I'd probably consult with an attorney. However, I'd like to avoid the time and aggravation. I could ignore what he's said and just address the time or address each concern as I did here and offer the only concession I'm willing to make which is $20 for the 4 bulbs (too much I know) and to split the cost of the salt because we should've put 4 bags in not 2 (even though they'd all have dissolved by the time he inspected anyway) for a total of $70. He could keep that and return $1000 to me. I don't know if he'd go for that or take his chance at court. If he does, it's my understanding he can later sue for the damages he listed and I could still end up in court. No idea how a judge will view all this since the lawn is a lot of he said/she said and we have witnesses on the backyard (no pics) at time of move in but they are family.

In the instance I do have to file in small claims for the $1070 will the fact that we stayed the extra week after end of lease matter at all? We had agreement with owner and paid for those days but does that then remove him from normal 30 day time requirements in FL statutes?

Any opinions on how to handle this and is it even legal for him to go back and charge me for the prior sodding? At the time he never said he intended to bill us for that and didn't do so.

I'm so upset by this. We did all we could to return home in better condition than we got. Had professionals clean carpet & home and pressure washed the drive and back porch even though it wasn't required! Looked good enough to use photos from day we moved in relisting home for rent. Feel like he's trying to use our money to do repairs & maintenance he should do as homeowner.

[sware2cod]

You have them on the technicality where they didn't return the letter about security deposit within the 30 days. You can send them the exact copy/paste of FL law about the 30 day rule. When they don't meet the 30 days, then landlord owes you the refund of FULL security deposit, even if there are damages that you caused. In this case if the landlord wants money for those damages then they must sue you for them (rather then take out from security deposit).

Paste that law also and send to landlord. And then summarize with them the date you move out, the date on the money order and then reiterate that they missed the 30 day window so they owe you the entire security deposit. Use the date on the money order as the date they sent, or the date on the priority mail. Ignore the letter head date since that means nothing since the money order was later.

Demand that they give the remainder of the money to you by XXX date or you will take legal action(put 10 or 15 days in future). You are due the entire security deposit back.

Also paste to them the fl state law that says the winner in such court case is due legal fees and court costs from the loser. Spell out to them if they lose (and I expect they would), then they would also owe legal fee/court costs in addition to the security deposit refund.

Send the mail return receipt so they have to sign for it. Google for example demand letters.

** I was a renter in FL and had same similar situation. I sent demand letter and got full refund of security deposit by the deadline I gave in the demand letter. My county small claims court required the demand letter before filing a claim. Yours might too.

**If they sue you for the damage (they can), then keep in mind in most FL towns there are severe water restrictions. Most only allow water 1x per week at certain hours, all year long.

[AZ Manager]

If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit.

Technically he missed the 30 day cutoff and needs to refund the entire deposit however it does not mean you cannot be held liable for damages. The second thing wrong was to issue the deposit refund with the notice of a claim against the deposit. The 30 day letter needs to be sent without including the refund and if you object to the charges you have 15 days to object which is when the landlord can refund the remaining portion.

Sware2cod's advice about sending a demand letter is spot on. Demand letter then file a civil case if he doesn't respond. Remember he can still charge you for the damages and it would be up to a judge to determine if they are reasonable or not.

[reenzz]

OP has neglected to say that he got a lease extension until 8/14.

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by reenzz

OP has neglected to say that he got a lease extension until 8/14.

Don't know how you know that but that might not matter, see bold below. If you take that literal it would mean the landlords time begins the day possession is returned and not the last day of the lease.

Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease,

[reenzz]

The date the OP returned the keys (possession) may be in question. Here is what he posted on another site:



Landlord keeping part of deposit and charging for past repairs
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

We lived in a home for 2 years. At the end of that time, we were told in an email less than 40 days before our second lease ended they weren't renewing the lease. The property manager (a realtor "friend of homeowner doing him a favor") said that she didn't know for sure but owner may have to be moving in or selling it. In another email she detailed conditions move out procedure including the following:

"When you move out, your security deposit if refunded in full will be sent to you Certified Mail within 15 days of you moving out. If there are any deductions to be made, owner will send you a Certified Letter within 15 days letting you know what is to be done & how much that will cost. You have the right to dispute this. If you do not dispute this, he will move forward having the necessary cleaning and/or repairs made and you will get another Certified Letter from him within 30 days of moving out which will list the cleaning and or repairs charges and the total cost for all of that. H will enclose copies of all paid receipts. He will then deduct this from your security deposit and mail you a check for the balance."

This didn't happen. Our lease ended 7/31. We got permission to stay through 8/14 if needed because the home we found to rent was occupied until 8/1 and they needed time to get it ready for us. We agreed on moveout inspection on 8/8 in the evening. However, that afternoon the property manager rescheduled the inspection to 8/9 though we were already out of the unit and texted her on the 8th to let her know we vacated. On the morning of the 9th, I met the property manager there and we did the walkthrough. I had the carpets and the home professionally cleaned. We paid someone to cut the shrubs the week before we moved and two weeks before moving we pressure washed the back porch and driveway on our own even though it wasn't required that we do so. We did these things because we believe in returning the property in as good, if not better, condition than we received it and we'd put down a $3100 deposit and wanted to have the deposit returned. When we walked through, the prop mgr said everything looked good and she didn't see any problems except maybe the lawn. I was upset and told her the lawn, which had three bad patches (not very large at all) had always had those bad spots. The owner had to re-sod those exact spots the prior year and they were bad when we moved in. I reminded her that at the time she told me they were having the lawn co resod it that I wouldn't use them because they hadn't been able to treat them initially and I felt the problem wouldn't be solved (I think it had chinch bugs or bad soil in those spots). While the sod initially seemed fine, we had a drought in the early part of the summer and those same spots died again. The rest of the lawn recovered when the rains began and was quite healthy. The property manager didn't respond at all when I said this to her (which is what she did when I told her the prior year my opinion on the lawn care co & grass).

We didn't get our deposit back nor a cert letter detailing charges within the fifteen days as promised & required by FL law. I texted and asked about it and the property mgr stated owner had 30 days and would be in town to inspect it himself 8/31 or 9/1. On 9/9 still didn't have anything. The 30 days was up at latest 9/8 since August had 31 days but since we were actually out the 8th it should've been here by the 7th. On 9/12 we got it via priority mail (not certified as required) on 9/12. The label showed 9/9. Letter was dated 9/5 but included in the body the tracking number for the priority mail (that had label dated 9/9) and the amounts of the money orders he included. The money orders were dated 9/10 so I couldn't figure out how the thing was mailed the 9th.
Usps tracking shows label was printed at a self service kiosk but not scanned in until the 12th at the usps facility. So, homeowner tried to make it appear as if he sent it on the 9th when he didn't. In the letter he told me he had 3 different people tell him while we were there that the sprinkler system wasn't set to water the lawn long enough. The home has an irrigation system that we were told when we moved in was set to the needed dates & times. We weren't given instructions on using it and told to leave it as it was. We did that and never gave it a thought until when he had the spots resodded and the handyman the owner used said that the system had been changed and was set at 10 mins per section and he was adjusting it to 20 mins. I told him and the property manager we'd NEVER touched that since she told us it was set as needed and we didn't even know how to change it. He just gave me an "oh sure" kind of look. I was offended and angry but said nothing else. Then in Jan. I realized the sprinkler was coming on one day too often per our water restrictions and asked them to come out and adjust it since we didn't know how to and couldn't be breaking the local watering laws. He did so and I again reiterated we didn't know how to use it and they could adjust it as needed. They didn't come out to readjust it again that I'm aware of. Anyhow, in the letter the owner says the timer was set 20 min/2xwkly and that the backyard was sand and mud (which it was bare when we moved there-it's a shaded area that was about 1/3 bare of grass). He is saying the three patches were bad because of lack of water and that it should've been watered 40 mins not the 20 it was set to. He also said shrubs were too tall, which they were when we moved there. We hated them and had to cut them often but couldn't shorten them too much for fear of damaging them because they'd be bare on top. We cut as low as we could without leaving them bare. Addressed with property manager in first 6 mos we lived there & she never told us we could cut them lower. I wish we could have! He's charging $250 for cutting shrubs and a tall bush that "grew into the roofline area" (have no idea what he means as that bush was always tall!) and weeding in rock beds. I weeded those rock beds often because the weed barrier had long ago disintegrated and he just laid more rock instead of replacing weed barrier. I don't doubt he had to weed again. I weeded 2 wks before we moved but by the time he inspected the property over 5 wks had passed. Same for the shrubs but I view that all as routine maintenance. He's charging $400 to remedy dead grass and patchy grass because of lack of watering and $345 for the sod he put in back in 2014 which he never once told me he was going to attempt to bill us for! Also charged $25.48 for adding salt to water softener (we added two bags a week before the move but the water softener is also broken and salt would only last for a few weeks. I had it looked at by his "handyman" who claimed it wasn't broken despite water pouring down driveway regularly) Then he's charging $45 for 18 bulbs he said were out. I know there were 4 (out of the 75+ interior lights) that were out when we moved and I forgot to change. The 14 others he claims were out I have no idea if lights were left on after we moved or people were in and out viewing it (he relisted it using pics taken by his property manager the day we moved out!) but when we moved they were working! And the final thing is $5.13 for an ac filter. We changed the air filter 2 weeks prior to moving. I know he had to change it again because they got filthy due to broken old system within 4 weeks. Grand total he's keeping is $1070.61.
Here's my questions:
!. Since he didn't send list of deductions cert mail in 30 days, it's my understanding we're entitled to a full refund. Should I insist on this and not even address all the deductions he mentions or go through my objections? I plan to send a cert. return receipt within 15 days so I'm following the requirements but I wondered if I should go through my objections, stipulate he can keep $20 for the 4 bulbs out when we moved and half of the $25 for salt in the water softener since we probably should have put in 4 bags not 2 when we did a few weeks before moving? Say, total of $35 he can keep and remit the $1035 to us? I have no intention of paying for what I believe is routine maintenance like shrub trimming, weeding, a/c filters, and the prior repair of sod nor the current sod since I don't believe lack of water killed them (why is rest of lawn in great shape?) and if it was then the people he hired were in charge of setting it. He's insinuated in the letter that they will all say we changed the sprinkler system when we didn't.
2. If I do send the demand letter, am I guaranteed to win in small claims court solely because he didn't send it in the required manner or timeframe?
3. Does the fact that we stayed the extra week going to have any bearing on the legalities? Does that remove them from the FL requirements of giving notice on the deposit return since technically the lease ended on July 31? I can't tell for sure reading the FL statutes but I'm thinking the lease terms would simply remain in effect for that extra week, which is how we and the owner treated it for rent purposes and the lease is being used as a binding contract when referred to in the letter by owner ("lease required we care for lawn & shrubs").
3. If he refuses to return the money and we take him to court I will probably retain a lawyer and advise him in the demand letter that is our plan and he would be responsible for court costs and attorney fees. If it ends up in court, will he be able to countersue for damages at that time or have to file a separate suit against us for damages if he chooses to pursue the ones listed in his letter? I'm not familiar with procedures on this. Also, if so and the judge were to find we had to pay some but not all, who has to pay court costs and attorney fees then?


Last edited by dlcinfl; Today at 01:25 AM.

[AZ Manager]

Depending on how the law is read 30 days from the 14th is the 13th and the landlord has yet to do anything wrong, you can still contest the charges as per state law even though you have gotten a partial refund. If it is from the time you returned possession, the 9th, then the 30 days was up the 8th and the landlord owes the full deposit return. It will never be from the last day you occupied the premises.

I will say again though it does not mean you aren't liable for the damages it just means you will be sued for them, judgments can hurt your employment options as well as your rental options.

[dlcinfl]

The post above mentions my post on another site. It was way too long and since I want people's opinion I needed them to read it! Our lease did end 7/31. New place wasn't ready until 8/8. Got permission initially to stay no later than the 14th if it was needed but landlord wanted me out the first week and texted me so several times. We mutually agreed on 8th as the final date. Move out inspection changed by property manager afternoon of the 8th to the next morning but we did vacate the 8th. They took keys, possession, utilities, etc. on the 9th.

As far as the damages goes, will that be a separate proceeding or handled at the same time as the suit I bring? Not sure if they have to file separately or just countersue? In that instance, if I am found liable for some who is charged court fees and attorney costs? I've never done this before and really have no idea how judges view things like this when it boils down to he said/she said type situations. Wouldn't think they'd charge previous tenant for what should be general upkeep after vacating and I have little faith in the honesty of the "witnesses" the owner may have. His property manager is a realtor friend of his and she, the handyman (who property manager says she always uses), and lawn guy are people he pays and has been in his employ for years.

[AZ Manager]

You need to talk to a lawyer. You are trying to get your deposit back based on the law which is fine but your questions are more complicated than you think, which would be easier if you didn't ramble on about useless information. I don't know what you think general upkeep is from those charges, none that I saw see bold below, or why the validity of their witnesses matter. If its a professional that I don't directly employ but use on a regular basis it is still a professional, not like I'm giving them kick-backs for helping me screw tenants out of deposits.

You would get the answer you need if you called a lawyer so you should go do that just be prepared to bring facts only and none of the nonsense.

1.$400 to repair patches of grass due to lack of watering - damage left by tenant
2.$345 for re-sodding 3 patches back in 2014 because sod man said died due to lack of watering and irrigation meter set at 20 min not the 40 recommended. - damage caused by tenant neglect
3. 25.48 for 4 bags of rock salt in water softener - tenant neglect, you should have kept it full and left it with what was in it when you arrived (noted on the move-in report)
4. $45 for 18 burned out light bulbs - tenant neglect in my leases tenants are responsible for light bulbs and batteries which is common
5. $5.13 new AC filter - tenant neglect
6. $250 trim shrubs and tall bushes grown into roofline and weeding in rock beds - tenant neglect assuming yard maintenance was tenants responsibility per the lease

[dlcinfl]

Thank you for your feedback. I will consult an attorney before we file if necessary. The things I said I saw were maintenance is based on the fact that I had the shrubs trimmed the week before we moved, the ac filter was changed 2 wks before we moved, salt added 2 wks before moving and weeding done week before move. The owner did not view the property until 9/1 which was over 3 weeks after we moved and of course by then those things needed doing again. Weeding, shrubs, and filter all had to be done every month (at longest) in the summer. So what he saw was anywhere between 4-6 weeks after we did them but when we moved they were all in acceptable condition.

The lawn deductions were not due to tenant neglect. It is either due to drought conditions, lack of watering due to sprinkler system which was set by his employees, not us, or disease in lawn. None of which was due to anything we did or did not do.