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Agree with most posters here. Deduct the expenses for the utility bill and be done with it. You have hard fast evidence and costs for the utility bill and you don't with the rest of it. Because the property is being sold and not being re-rented the rest is nothing but nit-picking at this point and you would be setting yourself up for a possible court battle that you could end up losing the whole deposit and then some. Especially if you walk into court trying to collect back late fees that you never addressed when they happened. The judge will see right through you on that one which will only plant the seed and then the rest will just compound it and the whole thing will end up backfiring on you.
Telling them you were going to sell the house was still bad news to a tenant.
Just charge them to remove the items and be done with it. If they take you to court, that's what a judge will have expected you to do. They have obviously vacated the unit. I don't see you able to charge them rent. Especially, when you aren't looking for another tenant and have the place for sale.
The tougher you are on a tenant with their security deposit, the more likely they are to take you to court. Because they really cleaned the place, they obviously want their security deposit back. So, I think you can expect to be sued if you try charging them rent for leaving stuff behind.
And if you lose, you'll have to pay their court costs and possibly punitive damages, too.
Wrong again. I am not trying to keep their deposit.
They expressed interest in buying my house since day one of the rental agreement.
I was honest with them and told them that at the end of their lease, I would most likely be short selling it.
Games occurred telling me they never had an alarm, which they clearly did. Again, they signed legal papers stating which utilities they would be responsible for and then denied receiving my letter stating that I had to settle their account. It took me weeks to clear my name with collections and it was a real PITA.
Now they are playing another game and saying their refridgerator is not theirs! They don't recall having one. Another lie.
Also, per my lawyer even if they did try to sue me (which is not going to occur, bc AGAIN I am not TRYING to keep their deposit), I live Out of state. Small claims court won't hold up and it will be extremely difficult to come after for things they knowingly lied about.
I do plan on charging them to remove the items and for the utility bill resulting in collections on their part. I DO want to be done with this. It's been NOTHING BUT a HEADACHE for me. Thank you for your input, however, you really do not know the whole story.
I'm in complete agreement with NoMoreSnow (yet again). I think you would be foolish to go after them for piddly things like the patio set. First, it was used when you rented to them and now it is more used. You have to consider depreciation so you're not likely to get much for it.
In my mind, you told them you were not going to re-rent so when the lease was up, they considered they had to move out. Telling you they were going to move was a courtesy. Since you made it clear you weren't going to re-rent, you were not out anything by them overstaying the lease. Suck it up, buttercup, and don't be a hard-butt by trying to nickle and dime them by charging for extra days of rent. Same with the carpet stain. You have to deduct for depreciation so, if you try to remove the stain and it doesn't come out, replacing the entire carpet will be for you to prove that the stain was caused by them (and not present upon their move-in) and then you can only get back the cost of the OLD carpet.
Refrigerator removal and lost keys. Again, you can legally charge them for removal. And the keys - good grief!
Take out the utility bill and be done.
Personally, if you tried to pull all these bogus late charges with me, I'd sue you in small claims court. Also, you'd better put all of this in writing and get it to them before time runs out or they'll be entitled to double or triple their security deposit - assuming you held it in a separate account (if required by statute).
In your mind, you don't have the right facts. I offered them to stay month to month AFTER their lease was up, they told ME they wanted to pursue buying my home and would provide me with a Pre-Qual letter. After two weeks of dragging me along, they said they would stay Month to month and I did not question them buying my house any longer, because it was obvious to me they did not have the money for a down payment. I told them to stay as long as they can go month to month after the lease expired until they found something else. That was what we agreed on.
The carpet stain was removed today by them, so that is not an issue anymore. Before you comment on things you have no clue about, I never stated it was an OLD carpet. It was actually a BRAND NEW carpet that I bought a year prior to me renting the house out. I have pictures of before move in and after move out.
I will be charging them for removal of their disgusting dirty fridge and for the utility bill. I have already notified them of all these issues.
Lastly, my LEGAL agreement states that within 45 days AFTER tenant surrenders possession of the Premises, at the expiration of the lease term, landlord shall return security without interest, less ANY cost of repairs, etc as authorized by this lease, to tenant.. I don't have to "quickly" do anything.
My lease was drawn up by a lawyer and he is has been made privy to everything mentioned in my OP.
+1 for what NoMoreSnowForMe and NYAnnie abd WorkdKlass said.
And a big bet that OP will ignore the advice. (Rherorical question: Why do people ask for opinions when they just want to argue that the opinion they have already established is the correct one? )
it's gonna be real fun for you to go to small claims court in NY now that you've relocated to FL. And if the ex tenants report you to the township for not getting the rental property permit that was required, you'll be hearing from the township, too. Seriously, this is a can if worms you don't want to open.
Stop being greedy.
PS I doubt I would have handed my rent check to your relative either.
Again, other posters ASSUMING they know everything about others situations...
The house DID have a rental Permit. I filed that with the town. See what I mean. Making accusations and you don't even know. Forget it. This is pointless chatting with people on here who just think they know the situation instead of asking me.. Did you have a rental permit? why Yes, yes I did.
WHAT bothered me about this was THEY LIED to me about certain things and are playing games now saying things like " I don't recall having a fridge"! Which is RIDICULOUS! Who's was it? It MAGICALLY APPEARED from out of NOWHERE! COME ON!
I NEVER SAID I WANT TO KEEP THEIR DEPOSIT. I AM NOT KEEPING IT. I AM CHARGING FOR REMOVAL OF THE DARN FRIDGE AND FOR THE DELINQUENT UTILITY BILL!!!
MY lawyer advised me to charge them a daily rate until they remove the item, and return the keys. As he put it, they still have possession of the house if they still have the keys. That was his suggestion. I said I would consider charging them because he is my lawyer and also the lawyer who drew up the lease.
ENOUGH. I don't have to explain my self to anyone on here. Cleary, you don't have all that transpired and all the facts, you just like to be argumentative with ME.
I agree with Snow. I think you're looking for cash. Don't try and over charge them...you're losing the house to a short sale so the stain on the carpet doesn't matter, the fridge doesn't matter....shoot, the keys at this point don't matter. You can't charge them a late fee...that ship has sailed long ago. As for the patio set...do you really need the patio set? You can charge them for it but you should ask them to return it first.
Yes, they should pay for the utility bill.
Don't dilly dally with their deposit or you'll find yourself paying more than you expected.
I think this comment here is the only mature, decent one in this entire thread.
The only thing your wrong about is, I am NOT looking for cash. I am upset they are playing games and lying to me. It doesn't make sense for me to continue being an OOS landlord at this point. The house is $75K under water.. due to our wonderful housing market. This is why I have NO choice BUT, to SS. You're right. I do not need the patio set, however it was left there as a courtesy to them and I am upset that they took it and lied about taking it. They lied about not having an alarm when they did. How do they not refer to their legal rental agreement that states this and see that they signed it? They are lying that they never had a fridge in the basement now. Why play games? They came back and cleaned the stain today, so that is no longer an issues, but Why not remove the fridge the same day and return the item they took? I don't get the games is all I am saying.
I am not dilly dallying their deposit. My lease states I do have within 45 days to send it to them, however I am not going to wait. I am calling the people I need to this week, in regards to removal of the fridge they left and then settling this whole thing. I just want it DONE with..
I think this comment here is the only mature, decent one in this entire thread.
The only thing your wrong about is, I am NOT looking for cash. I am upset they are playing games and lying to me. It doesn't make sense for me to continue being an OOS landlord at this point. The house is $75K under water.. due to our wonderful housing market. This is why I have NO choice BUT, to SS. You're right. I do not need the patio set, however it was left there as a courtesy to them and I am upset that they took it and lied about taking it. They lied about not having an alarm when they did. How do they not refer to their legal rental agreement that states this and see that they signed it? They are lying that they never had a fridge in the basement now. Why play games? They came back and cleaned the stain today, so that is no longer an issues, but Why not remove the fridge the same day and return the item they took? I don't get the games is all I am saying.
I am not dilly dallying their deposit. My lease states I do have within 45 days to send it to them, however I am not going to wait. I am calling the people I need to this week, in regards to removal of the fridge they left and then settling this whole thing. I just want it DONE with..
Being upset here is one thing but you will need to pick your battles carefully moving forward with this. Based on what you stated in your OP and above, you are clearly going at this for retaliatory reasons only because you are upset. And justifiably so but if you are not very, very careful you are going to end up a lot further in the hole if it ends up in court. One wrong move and the tenants catch it, you could lose the whole deposit and then some in court.
So I suggest that you vent away, release the anger and then take a deep breath, calm down and then reassess the situation rationally. Let off all the steam you want here but not moving forward. And why the games you ask? No one here can answer that question for you except to only assume 'because they can and they did'.
Being upset here is one thing but you will need to pick your battles carefully moving forward with this. Based on what you stated in your OP and above, you are clearly going at this for retaliatory reasons only because you are upset. And justifiably so but if you are not very, very careful you are going to end up a lot further in the hole if it ends up in court. One wrong move and the tenants catch it, you could lose the whole deposit and then some in court.
So I suggest that you vent away, release the anger and then take a deep breath, calm down and then reassess the situation rationally. Let off all the steam you want here but not moving forward. And why the games you ask? No one here can answer that question for you except to only assume 'because they can and they did'.
Good luck.
Thank you. How would I lose the whole deposit if they are getting their deposit back, (I was never planning on keeping their whole deposit), minus the utility bill and fridge removal fee? Actually, it will probably be a wash because I have to pay them what is left in the oil tank. There is no scam I am trying to pull here.. or trying to be greedy as someone else insinuated. I have decided not to charge a daily rate for the belongings left and I am charging for the items that they definitely should be charged for.
Thank you. How would I lose the whole deposit if they are getting their deposit back, (I was never planning on keeping their whole deposit), minus the utility bill and fridge removal fee? Actually, it will probably be a wash because I have to pay them what is left in the oil tank. There is no scam I am trying to pull here.. or trying to be greedy as someone else insinuated. I have decided not to charge a daily rate for the belongings left and I am charging for the items that they definitely should be charged for.
I am only referring to what was mostly in your initial post with everything including the late fees, patio set, daily hold-over fees, etc, etc. If (and I know you have changed your mind since) you would have went after them for the late fees they could have contested that and taken you to court. Once in court, (as I mentioned in previous post) depending on how the judge felt about you trying to charge them for late fees way after the fact and depending on how it 'rubbed' the judge, many times a judge will drop all/any deductions and award a tenant their full deposit back whether you had other legit charges against the deposit or not. It just depends on the day, the judge, their mood, your state laws, etc. I have seen for myself and also heard many stories about one slip up and a judge throws the whole thing out and awards a tenant their full deposit plus court costs, fees, etc. Some states even award double/triple the deposit amount for various slip-ups or offenses.
Never said you were trying to 'scam' anyone. I only stated that your anger was getting in the way and you wanted to really sock it to them with deductions you would never get away with and it could backfire and cost you a lot more than just their whole deposit back if you didn't take a step back and reassess your plan.
But now, changing your mind and charging them only for the utility bill and fridge removal is much more rational.
I rented my house for two years to tenants who paid on time... most the time.. There was a month or two where the payment was made after the 5th day, as per the lease agreement I had drawn up by my lawyer. They were good tenants for the most part, except for when I received a call from collections that they had not paid a utility bill, which was also signed in the legal agreement that they would be responsible for.
I bought it to their attention in writing and they never responded.
What does your lease say about late fees for rent? Do you have to notify them (by law) that they paid the rent late the day it's late in order to collect the fee from them? I always send a reminder - sent 4 out yesterday, which is unheard of. Provide proof, if you have it, with the date stamped on the envelope. I always keep the envelopes "late rent" arrives in. I photocopy and attach to the list of security deductions.
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Once the tenant has completely moved out and you’ve inspected the premises, prepare an itemized list of deductions for cleaning, repairs, back rent, or other financial obligations required under your lease or rental agreement. List the item (such as repainting living room wall or five days unpaid rent) and the dollar amount of the deduction.
If you want to let them slide because they have basically been "good tenants", let them slide. But remind them that you are letting them slide when you send them your itemized list of deductions. I always do with a "Charges Not Deducted".
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I let them know that because I had to settle the amount, I took the amount out of their security. Now they are saying they never had the alarm, which is BS because they told me they wanted me to keep it on and it's signed by them in the legal lease agreement. I also have text conversations by them stating that they were using it.
Then that's where that ends. In your list of deductions, put a note next to the amount and refer to the line in the lease that states they agreed to pay for the alarm monitoring. Print out the text messages that also verify this and attach them.
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I left them my patio set for them to use as a courtesy, as well as other items in the house. The patio set was taken. When questioned about it, I was given an excuse that the movers must have just put it on the truck. Which, movers always do an inventory of items before they place them on the truck with stickers to show record on their end. I was told that they would check and get back to me.
Charge them for replacement value of said patio set. If you could have sold it on Craigslist for $20? Charge them $20. They had no right to take it and if they had taken a microwave or a light fixture....
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They also left a refrigerator in my basement. They "forgot" the back door keys in a box and said they would return them on Sunday along with coming back to pick up the fridge.
One set of keys is also missing and was lost a week ago.
I have a lock box on my front door, but conveniently they still have my back door keys.
Charge them for removal of the fridge. Let them know that if they don't do it themselves it will probably cost them a lot more if you have to hire someone else to do it.
The keys? Charge them to have the locks replaced/re-keyed. Doesn't matter if you were going to change them out anyway, now you HAVE to. But this is something you can give them a break on if you want to. An apartment complex management company wouldn't say, "Oh, we were going to re-key/replace anyway....it's ok!!!"
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Do you think I should charge them a daily rate for rent for every day they left their belongings in my house?
I certainly think I should. When the lease date is up, that means you move yourself and ALL of your belongings out the house at the date the lease expires and NOT take what was left in the house as a courtesy! They moved out a day after the lease expired and coming back two days later to supposedly remove their fridge and to return my back door keys.
Yep. Your property isn't a storage facility and if they didn't make arrangements with you beforehand, just assumed it would be "ok" and they could come an go as the pleased after their lease ended? Not ok.
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Does this all sound reasonable? I don't think I am not being unfair here considering everything.
Land Lording is a "business" after all...or so it's said over and over again. But it's up to you how much hardball you want to play - completely up to you.
What does your lease say about late fees for rent? Do you have to notify them (by law) that they paid the rent late the day it's late in order to collect the fee from them? I always send a reminder - sent 4 out yesterday, which is unheard of. Provide proof, if you have it, with the date stamped on the envelope. I always keep the envelopes "late rent" arrives in. I photocopy and attach to the list of security deductions.
I would be hard pressed to believe that any judge is going to allow a LL to save up and charge late fees months and months down the road without acknowledging it within a month after it happens. "Oh hey, SURPRISE!"
Nah, I doubt that will fly anywhere.
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