I'm a renter that lied on rental application - Can this end up helping me? (security deposit, legal)
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The law you quoted says the tenant can back out before being accepted, which is basic contract law, and he did. The law says the landlord can't then keep the deposit. It's a done deal. The horse is dead.
Yes, the OP can back out as long as it is within the specified time frame either agreed upon and written on the receipt OR if not written on the receipt the time frame is 48 hours per the law. The OP backed out on day 4 which is after the 48 hour period. This has all been discussed and documented in this thread.
Yes, the OP can back out as long as it is within the specified time frame either agreed upon and written on the receipt OR if not written on the receipt the time frame is 48 hours per the law. The OP backed out on day 4 which is after the 48 hour period. This has all been discussed and documented in this thread.
The 48 hour period ends the tenancy - for both the landlord and the tenant - UNLESS the landlord wrote a different time frame on the receipt.
The OP did not say there was any agreement for longer than 48 hours written on the receipt.
The 48 hour rule keeps landlords from holding tenants hostage longer than 48 hours. And the tenant can back out during that time frame if the landlord hasn't accepted them yet.
So, once the 48 hours was up, if no other later deadline was agreed to on the receipt - then the deal was over - completely - after 48 hours.
And the landlord then has 3 days to return the money.
Your interpretation would hold a tenant hostage beyond 48 hours, even if the landlord was not held to that same time frame, which would be unreasonable.
Okay, I don't like to trust articles on the internet by managers, which was your link. I wanted to find actual PA law explaining this supposed law. Well, there isn't one.
Here are the PA statutes. The relevant PA codes from a legal statutes website are under Title 68, Chapter 8:
He also says that if there wasn't a written agreement that the deposit would be forfeited within a certain time frame for specifically holding the apartment for the tenant to make up their minds (which is basically what an option is), then they can't just keep the money.
I even looked under the codes for buying real estate, as Bigger Pockets is a website for realtors, basically, to see if maybe he got mixed up with real estate transaction firm offers and options, and couldn't find any 48 hour law there either.
Perfect example of how contracts get created on whims and rumors.
One thing I learned when studying law was that any deal needs to be fair on both sides. And if something doesn't sound "reasonable" - the basis of all laws, really - then it's probably not legal.
So, lesson learned. Ask for the relevant statute every time.
Okay, after further research I am going to RETRACT the info in post #22 that is from the "biggerpockets" website that talks about holding deposits. It appears that guy is a quack because nothing of the sort is mentioned anywhere in the PA state rental statutes (which I had a little more time to read through this time before this post.)
Here is the info from the PA state statutes regarding "application fees" (not "deposits"):
Your new landlord may ask you to provide credit references and a list of past landlords, addresses and your employment history, including salary.
An application fee may be charged and may be nonrefundable if you are not approved. At the landlord's discretion, the application fee may be applied to your first month?s rent or security deposit, but it is not required by law.
So, it is rather vague based on OP's situation and, because the LL called it a "deposit" and not a "fee". I don't know if that makes a difference in PA state statutes. It may end up falling under the "security deposit" statutes which is also explained in detail in the above link.
OP, I think it best due to the grey areas of your situation (specifically "deposit" vs "fee") that you use the legal contact info below that is also mentioned in the above link and let them sort it all out for you:
Quote:
If you have a problem or a dispute with a landlord or any other business, you can call the Attorney General's Bureau of Consumer Protection at 1-800-441-2555, or you can also file an online complaint.
Yeah, for some reason, PA law is hard to find on the Internet, and the articles by managers saying these holding deposits can be held are at the top in Google results. I had to be really tenacious to find the actual statutes. Weird, because most states have really clear info available online put out by the state. I can see why landlords/managers get away with this nonsense, and believe they legally can.
Yeah, and then there is the whole other can of worms about him lying on the application to throw into the mix IF he ends up getting approved and/or the LL finds out he was evicted once he runs the background checks. LOL
That is where he might ultimately end up tripping himself up and losing that money he paid in after all is said and done.
Yeah, and then there is the whole other can of worms about him lying on the application to throw into the mix IF he ends up getting approved and/or the LL finds out he was evicted once he runs the background checks. LOL
That is where he might ultimately end up tripping himself up and losing that money he paid in after all is said and done.
Yes, that's my point from the first page of this thread. Lying on the app automatically forfeits any monies given, any apartment app ive seen has that clause. And cancelling the checks without the party even aware of it, presuming those were given/intended as good checks, is check fraud. That's also called "self help" and judges don't help those who resort to unlawful self help.
Yes, that's my point from the first page of this thread. Lying on the app automatically forfeits any monies given, any apartment app ive seen has that clause. And cancelling the checks without the party even aware of it, presuming those were given/intended as good checks, is check fraud. That's also called "self help" and judges don't help those who resort to unlawful self help.
No, no, no. You can't keep someone's money for lying on an app. You can deny their application, but you can't keep their money.
If they take you to court, you have to prove to the court that the fact that they lied on their application actually cost you that much out-of-pocket money.
Your honor, I kept his $1,200 deposit money because I discovered he'd lied on his application."
"Where are the receipts showing proof that it cost you $1,200 out-of-pocket directly due to the fact that he lied on his application?"
"And can you cite the appropriate city/state statute that gives you that right?"
Again, if there is really any application form that I've never seen, that actually says you will forfeit all of your money paid if I find out you've lied - and a statute to back that up anywhere in the U.S. - I'd be very surprised.
Like attorneys and landlords making up their own contracts, even if they include clauses that are not legal, I would not be surprised that there are applications floating around somewhere with this clause - though it's a new one to me. But that does not make them legal.
Again, if there is really any application form that I've never seen, that actually says you will forfeit all of your money paid if I find out you've lied - and a statute to back that up anywhere in the U.S. - I'd be very surprised.
You do know that laws are there to say what you can't do and rarely say what you can do. I doubt there is a law that says this is illegal in most places as long as the contract clearly states that. I know if you lied on the application and I rented to you then found the lie I would kick you out and keep your deposit because of my early termination clause. That would be 100% legal here and in a lot of places in the U.S.
Even without the clause the majority of places allow landlords to keep the deposit, at least a portion of it, to cover expenses involved in re-renting and unpaid rent.
EVERY app I've seen says that. In bolded or italic letters either on the very front page or on the very back page right where your final signature is. Maybe that's because of the area I live in, but I'm surprised you've never heard of it.
Like AZ Manager said, laws are for what you can't do. Or landlord tenant laws are there also for when no lease exists there are default rules. Unless a law is created that specifically states you cannot have that clause under any circumstance, it can be there. And people see it and sign it, so yes, it's enforceable.
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