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I use 12 kWh per day average for the year... when PGE sends out the energy statements I'm always the least in the sampling.
No doubt a newer box would use less energy... but would it be reliable and/or even serviceable.
It kind of reminds me of the elderly widow that lived across the street... she had an old Buick from about 1985... not the big one but big enough... she went to church and grocery shopping.
Her Grand daughter never let up that old car... finally she talked Grams into buy a brand new Toyota Prius... 50 miles to a gallon and looks like a space ship according to my neighbor... thing is if you drive 20 miles a week does it really pay to spend 28k to go from 15 mpg to 50?
Agree. Total waste of money. I'm getting a yen for a new car (driving a 2001 Buick which I leased, then bought, has 75k miles), but just can't justify it since I, too, drive - at most - 2k miles a year. Repairs/maintenance under $500/yr - tires, battery, brakes - whatever it needs. I'm lucky to fill the tank 3x a year. Even a $100/mo. lease doesn't make sense b/c my auto insurance would go up to cover value of a new car. And to lay out a big chunk of cash that could be invested elsewhere - that's just dumb.
And - a new frig for energy saving?? I bought my Amana in the 90's - still going strong. My electric use is at most 10kw hrs a day, and that's w/son-dil using my clothes dryer. I heard last week from a friend whose kids bought all new appliances and they were lemons. "If ain't broke, don't fix it" is pretty much the way I feel about replacing cars and appliances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
Again... just how much will I save if my present use of electricity for my 2400 square foot home is 12 kWh per day?
I've been in this house 40 years (since 1976). Still running the same HVAC - original heating plant with the property built in 1940, AC installed in the 60's (I think, don't know for sure). Heat is about $850/yr; elec./AC about 650/yr. for 1,900 sq. ft. AC runs all night in the summer b/c I sleep better. Why do I want to spend $7-8k to replace an HVAC system that is only costing me $1,600/yr?? What will I save - $300/yr.? That would take 26 years. I'll only have to replace the system AGAIN in ten years - b/c nothing made today lasts longer than ten years - and have died - and still not have recouped the cost. Not worth it.
Another example - replace kitchen range which has two electric outlets - which I use all the time. The new ranges don't have outlets - against the regs. What do I do about that inconvenience?? The answer is nothing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Imo, not much new is better. Replacing perfectly servicable items more often than not creates more problems (and expense) than are solved.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 05-31-2016 at 07:02 PM..
My aunt is one. She is my mother's younger sister and my Mom is 83 so she has to be nearly 80 herself. She never had a solid career, but worked a variety of jobs throughout her life, never lasting for long- I think she is one of those types that doesn't like being managed or always thinks she has a better way of doing things. A divorce decades ago nixed that opportunity to build up a retirement plan as a team, she now lives alone in a trailer she just bought, mortgage (which we told her was just stupid) near Boise and last time we were together a year or so ago I think she was still cleaning houses for a couple of people to make ends meet.
My mom on the other hand managed to carve out a very successful career entering the workforce in her 40's as my parents divorced, she was finishing up a late bachelors degree (art history and interior design) at the time so she had at least that as a door opener. Ended up working on top secret projects for Lockheed, traveled and worked all over the world and was still within the era of pensions. So now she is sitting pretty with a paid for $500k condo in San Diego, steady pension, SS and probably $400k still in an account- I'm very proud of her fortitude. She has a standing offer for her sister to join her at her place. My aunt won't for one reason- A paralyzing fear of earthquakes, which is just silly- Seattle and St. Louis have more of a chance of a devastating earthquake than San Diego!
So my mom just sends her occasional checks and care packages - taking her on trips she could never go on her own. It's too bad as she is by far my favorite aunt- very feisty and good natured. But so far she seems to be eking out a happy enough and independent life for herself.
Reading many of these accounts makes me feel beyond fortunate and lucky. I know things can take a turn for the worse from any direction and at any time but somehow we managed to work our way to a comfortable household income as we enter our mid-fifties. Each working our way from restaurant work putting ourselves through college and beyond well into our late 20s and 30s, graduating college late in life, 27 and 29, to professional level careers. Coming from fairly working class backgrounds we are very conservative with our money, probably to our detriment in passing up other investment products like real estate that we didn't feel comfortable enough with. Just being steady, maximum contibutors to a retirement account and not making too many stupid decisions (sure, we could have managed our money better, but you gotta still live; travel some, go to ball games, concerts and plays, out to dinner once in a while, even buy a new car once or twice- but keep them for 15+years) but that account has amazingly hit that magic $1M this year, and even as we didn't invest in real estate, because of dumb luck and the particulars of this market the one and only house we bought we owe about $100k on is worth $1M, even as we have no plans to sell that still eases an uncertain future. We are better than most to be sure but we mostly both still kind of live life like we don't have very much money just because of our backgrounds and we both hope to continue working and building that account up more if we can.
We enjoy life but also hope and pray things stay on track, we stay healthy as we so far have, and we at least enough resources and fortitude that we can handle most things that come our way. We are certainly nothing special in our pretty basic choices, plenty of bad ones along the way but lucky to be sure that the good ones seemed to have trumped so far.
^^Slow and steady wins the race. Live below your means (be creative) - and save consistently. I have a relative in MI. Wife never worked. He was an engineer w/GM all his life. From the day they were married, they saved 10% of his income. They were millionaires before he retired, paid off their home 14 years after they were married, retired with a good GM pension/healthcare and SS. Always lived simply, but had money for the important things. He is now 84, his wife died six years ago, GM bought out his pension for $400k a couple of years ago. So, now he has a bank account of close to $2MM. He's put both his kids through college and now the grandkids.
^^Slow and steady wins the race. Live below your means (be creative) - and save consistently. I have a relative in MI. Wife never worked. He was an engineer w/GM all his life. From the day they were married, they saved 10% of his income. They were millionaires before he retired, paid off their home 14 years after they were married, retired with a good GM pension/healthcare and SS. Always lived simply, but had money for the important things. He is now 84, his wife died six years ago, GM bought out his pension for $400k a couple of years ago. So, now he has a bank account of close to $2MM. He's put both his kids through college and now the grandkids.
IIRC, didn't a lot of the UAW folks take a haircut back in the collapse?
IIRC, didn't a lot of the UAW folks take a haircut back in the collapse?
He was never union. He had a BS and MS in electrical engineering. Worked on one of their space projects back in the day, prior to that Delco in Milwaukee until he was transferred to the Detroit area. He retired at age 70. His pension was $50k a year. When GM offered him the $400k, he laughingly said GM figured he would live eight more years. This was about three years ago, iirc. Of course, he took the money - partially because he has some minor heart issues and a recurrent lung infection that may, in the end, do him in. His father lived to 91, brother died at 84.
Agree. Total waste of money. I'm getting a yen for a new car (driving a 2001 Buick which I leased, then bought, has 75k miles), but just can't justify it since I, too, drive - at most - 2k miles a year. Repairs/maintenance under $500/yr - tires, battery, brakes - whatever it needs. I'm lucky to fill the tank 3x a year. Even a $100/mo. lease doesn't make sense b/c my auto insurance would go up to cover value of a new car. And to lay out a big chunk of cash that could be invested elsewhere - that's just dumb.
And - a new frig for energy saving?? I bought my Amana in the 90's - still going strong. My electric use is at most 10kw hrs a day, and that's w/son-dil using my clothes dryer. I heard last week from a friend whose kids bought all new appliances and they were lemons. "If ain't broke, don't fix it" is pretty much the way I feel about replacing cars and appliances.
I've been in this house 40 years (since 1976). Still running the same HVAC - original heating plant with the property built in 1940, AC installed in the 60's (I think, don't know for sure). Heat is about $850/yr; elec./AC about 650/yr. for 1,900 sq. ft. AC runs all night in the summer b/c I sleep better. Why do I want to spend $7-8k to replace an HVAC system that is only costing me $1,600/yr?? What will I save - $300/yr.? That would take 26 years. I'll only have to replace the system AGAIN in ten years - b/c nothing made today lasts longer than ten years - and have died - and still not have recouped the cost. Not worth it.
Another example - replace kitchen range which has two electric outlets - which I use all the time. The new ranges don't have outlets - against the regs. What do I do about that inconvenience?? The answer is nothing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Imo, not much new is better. Replacing perfectly serviceable items more often than not creates more problems (and expense) than are solved.
Maybe we are twins separated at birth???
I knew I could not be the only one with a frugal big picture view of things.
I don't have a retirement outside of Social Security.... yet a frugal lifestyle and avoiding trends or going "Green" just because has served me well...
Don't get me wrong... products have a life cycle and there comes a time when things do wear out... either physically or economically...
I do know enough widows and widowers that do just fine on Social Security and a little savings... they own their homes... have a modest older car, grow produce, have chickens... and most of all are debt free...
When the heat exchanger on moms 45 year old furnace went out I told her I doubt I could fix it easily.... so I installed a brand new high efficiency model that was rather simple... not variable speed blower or multistage burners... also took the opportunity to reseal all the ductwork... total cost in materials for her new furnace $1200... the city inspector commented on the high quality job which was nice to hear.
Neighbor also replaced the furnace of the same vintage... spent $3400 and crappy install... lots of duct tape instead of a new plenum... both mom and her neighbor live on Social Security...
I think Americans are not ready for retirement at all when it comes to the prospect of long-term care. I have recently dealt with the decline and eventual deaths of my mother and mother-in-law. With advances in medical care people are living much longer but often with chronic conditions that leave them needing care. My mil ended up in a wheelchair needing full care (lifting out of bed, changing, etc) and the costs of that care ate up all of her retirement she had saved being very frugal. My own mom declined slowly with dementia and also required expensive care. With the rise in obesity I see many being taken by surprise with needing help in their later years to where their entire life savings will be gone in a short time.
Maybe - or maybe just two people with a different view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
I knew I could not be the only one with a frugal big picture view of things.
Yep. Drives me nuts when I see some of these fixer-upper shows and people destroying really nice kitchen cabinets and whatnot - all for the sake of updates. Of course, they make money at it. Nonetheless, all I see is waste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
I don't have a retirement outside of Social Security.... yet a frugal lifestyle and avoiding trends or going "Green" just because has served me well...
I don't have a 'retirement' in the form of a pension, either - unless you call $268/mo. a pension. Employer froze its defined benefit plan ten years into my working there. My SS is pretty decent, and I do have rental income (I own a very large 2-family, son/dil rent from me). When I worked, I tried to save by hook or crook as much as possible into my 401k, IRA, HSA, primarily to reduce income tax burden. So, I do have a fairly decent IRA. My income today covers all fixed living expenses with plenty left over each month for home maintenance, the unexpected, and fun. I'm doing annual Roth conversions to minimize IRA withdrawals as I age. I'm hoping to leave a decent amount of that fund, plus the house, to my son/dil. They're gonna need it. Life isn't as secure for those working today as it was for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
When the heat exchanger on moms 45 year old furnace went out I told her I doubt I could fix it easily.... so I installed a brand new high efficiency model that was rather simple... not variable speed blower or multistage burners... also took the opportunity to reseal all the ductwork... total cost in materials for her new furnace $1200... the city inspector commented on the high quality job which was nice to hear.
How far are you from WI?? The day may come I'll be requesting your services.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 05-31-2016 at 09:22 PM..
Oakland CA is rather far... my brother and his family just attended a wedding of their nephew in Madison Wisconsin...
Shortly after I was eligible for the retirement plan it was frozen... also, the company was spun off so I was only 20% vested...
Sometimes you can do all the right things and still come up short as far as career planning.
I was fine before I went into the corporate world and will be fine out of the corporate world...
Actually... no one in my family has ever received a pension... outside social security...
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