Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-04-2019, 05:53 PM
 
2,759 posts, read 2,052,018 times
Reputation: 5005

Advertisements

Okay, I just downloaded the "new" Form 1040 off the IRS website and unless I am going crazy, there's something important (to seniors) missing here.

On the second page, in the box where it says Standard Deduction, it does NOT give the correct amount for people over 65. It simply says $12,000 (for a single person) with no mention of the extra (additional) standard deduction that many of us seniors qualify for. The standard deduction in that case is an additional $1600, for a total of $13,600 instead of $12,000.

If you go to the IRS Interactive Assistant site here:

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/seniors-retirees

and under Special Rules, click on Special Standard Deduction for Seniors, it will walk you through a few questions which will tell you if you qualify for this (most people do.)

Yet there is NO indication of this on the form itself, NOR one word about it in the Form 1040 Instructions.

Zero, zip, nada.

Pardon my French, but... WTF?!??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-04-2019, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,254 posts, read 14,754,235 times
Reputation: 22199
I use Turbo Tax so I am not concerned. They update/correct as needed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2019, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,962,441 times
Reputation: 17878
They don't always put all the options on the form. You always had to refer to the instructions for some things.

Anyway, I plan to do mine online this year (as I have done in the past), but I am waiting until at least March to give the software company time to work out the bugs the early filers will find. And also all those IRS employees were furloughed during the shutdown... they need time to catch up on their work and figure out how to respond to all the gazillion questions they are bound to get with all the new rules.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2019, 06:10 PM
 
2,759 posts, read 2,052,018 times
Reputation: 5005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
They don't always put all the options on the form. You always had to refer to the instructions for some things.
True, but the problem is that the Instructions don't mention the Special Standard Deduction for Seniors either. :-( So someone who never heard about the tweak to the standard deduction, for seniors, would never know it is available to take advantage of.

Back when we had Personal Exemptions, guess what: The over-65 one (which was more) was right there on the form and in the instructions. Clear as day in both places. For them to have seemingly deliberately left this option off both 2018 publications is ridiculous.

As for tax software, there are many seniors who have no reason to use that. If your only income is from Social Security and dividends and interest on savings accounts, and you have no capital gains or losses to report, etc., it makes no sense (IMHO) to spend anywhere from $30 to $50 in order to fill out a simple (and supposedly correct) form.

I say that as someone who has used tax software in the past but now have no need for it. I also know several seniors who choose to do their taxes manually, and IMHO the forms that the IRS provides -- whether online or on paper -- should be correct.

IRS seems to have no trouble ferreting out "errors" in peoples' returns, you'd think they could spend a little time making their forms as correct and complete for everybody as they should be, regardless of how one chooses to complete or to file their return.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2019, 06:36 PM
 
8,238 posts, read 6,585,544 times
Reputation: 23145
Thank you, BBCJunkie, for bringing attention to this!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2019, 07:22 PM
 
11,177 posts, read 16,026,528 times
Reputation: 29935
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
Yet there is NO indication of this on the form itself, NOR one word about it in the Form 1040 Instructions.

Zero, zip, nada.

Pardon my French, but... WTF?!??
Sure there is, you're just apparently looking in the wrong places because it is mentioned multiple times. In fact, I don't know how you missed it.

First of all, on the 1040 form itself, right below where you type your name, it says Your Standard Deduction: and there is a box to check if you were born before January 2, 1954.

Then, on page 2 of the 1040, in the margin to the left of Line 8 Standard Deduction, it specifically states, if you checked any box under Standard Deduction, see instructions.


Third, if you then go to the instructions for Line 8 Standard Deduction on page 34 of the 1040 Instructions, there is the following paragraph:

Exception 2—Born before January 2, 1954, or blind. If you checked any of the following boxes, figure your standard deduction using the Standard Deduction Chart for People Who Were Born Before January 2, 1954, or Were Blind. • You were born before January 2, 1954. • You are blind. • Spouse was born before January 2, 1954. • Spouse is blind.

And then finally, Page 35 of the 1040 Instructions contains the worksheet for figuring your standard deduction if you were born before January 2, 1954.


So, yes, I suppose you are right. If you completely ignore the reference to the enhanced standard deduction for seniors at the top of page one of Form 1040 right below your name; and you ignore the statement on page 2 of Form 1040 right next to Line 8 that references the enhanced standard deduction and tells you to check the instructions; and if you ignore Page 34 of the 1040 Instructions, as well as the entire worksheet for determining your standard deduction on page 35 of the 1040 Instructions, then I guess you can say that there is not a word anywhere on the form or the instructions booklet about the enhanced standard deduction for seniors.

Zero, zip, nada.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2019, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
6,627 posts, read 7,350,203 times
Reputation: 8186
I use Turbo Tax and as of today it looks like the correction on the underlying form has not been made but I think the final deduction on the 1040 is correct..

Look on the Standard Deduction Worksheet for dependents line 3b. I think this should have 1,300 for each person over 65 or blind. Since this form says dependents I might be looking at the wrong form. The reference on the tax form 1040 is to Sch A but I do not see this deduction on Sch A. I am confused but I will pay attention to the problem when I do my taxes.

HOWEVER line 8 of the 1040 has the correct deduction if you are over 65 so no error in your tax computation. I just do not know why it has the correct answer. Note that on your personnel worksheets you do check a box if over 65 or blind so that is probably why the 1040 has the correct answer.

My conclusion is that you will get the correct answer today but I am interested to see what others can add.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2019, 01:08 PM
 
2,759 posts, read 2,052,018 times
Reputation: 5005
I do stand corrected.... I got a phone call earlier today from a friend who had begun doing her taxes and couldn't figure out why the "Special Senior Standard Deduction" she'd heard about in the news didn't appear to be referenced anywhere. We pored over both forms line by line and finally jumped through the right hoops to find it

There have been a few articles in recent months about the proposed separate form supposedly coming next year (for the 2019 tax year) called 1040-SR which is for seniors only. Perhaps it will display only the Senior deduction amounts by default:

https://aronsonllc.com/simplified-fo...d-for-seniors/

I feel like an idiot for not spotting the "hoops" on the current form though. Clearly I'm not the only one who was looking for something that was expected to be more up-front noticeable than it is.

Sorry about the Chicken Little post
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2019, 03:35 PM
 
Location: OH>IL>CO>CT
7,519 posts, read 13,634,207 times
Reputation: 11914
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm1cc View Post
I use Turbo Tax and as of today it looks like the correction on the underlying form has not been made but I think the final deduction on the 1040 is correct..

Look on the Standard Deduction Worksheet for dependents line 3b. I think this should have 1,300 for each person over 65 or blind.

Since this form says dependents I might be looking at the wrong form.

Right. On paper, look at the worksheet right below the Dependent's worksheet. It has the $13,600 for Single >65. (Page 35 of paper 1040 Instructions)

The reference on the tax form 1040 is to Sch A but I do not see this deduction on Sch A.

Right. Sch A is for Itemized deductions. 1040 Line 8 is for either Std or Itemized deductions
I am confused but I will pay attention to the problem when I do my taxes.

HOWEVER line 8 of the 1040 has the correct deduction if you are over 65 so no error in your tax computation. I just do not know why it has the correct answer. Note that on your personnel worksheets you do check a box if over 65 or blind so that is probably why the 1040 has the correct answer.

My conclusion is that you will get the correct answer today but I am interested to see what others can add.
See above ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2019, 04:48 PM
 
126 posts, read 121,156 times
Reputation: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCjunkie View Post
I do stand corrected.... I got a phone call earlier today from a friend who had begun doing her taxes and couldn't figure out why the "Special Senior Standard Deduction" she'd heard about in the news didn't appear to be referenced anywhere. We pored over both forms line by line and finally jumped through the right hoops to find it

There have been a few articles in recent months about the proposed separate form supposedly coming next year (for the 2019 tax year) called 1040-SR which is for seniors only. Perhaps it will display only the Senior deduction amounts by default:

https://aronsonllc.com/simplified-fo...d-for-seniors/

I feel like an idiot for not spotting the "hoops" on the current form though. Clearly I'm not the only one who was looking for something that was expected to be more up-front noticeable than it is.

Sorry about the Chicken Little post
Don't be sorry--I bet other people saw it the same way you did, and you got it straightened out by bringing up the topic. Good on you, and thank you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top