In Search of Cheaper Housing, Silicon Valley Workers Face Long Commutes (San Jose: to rent, townhouse)

[TheGreatCurve]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Let's talk about the foreseeable future. The high speed railroads effect is so far in the future we might as well talk about the sun dying

Don't worry, the sun has no chance of dying by 2029.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

Don't worry, the sun has no chance of dying by 2029.

The high speed railroad has 0 chance of being done by 2029. Remember how long the eastern span of the bay bridge took? Yeah we're going to have advanced AI before we build that boondoggle.

[rodentraiser]

I don't know about firefighters, but I know for a fact that Los Gatos cops don't make enough to live near where they work or at least didn't when I was there. Their shifts were four on and three off. One guy used to commute from somewhere over by Livermore and he stayed in town with his parents for his four day shift and commuted back home for his three days off. Even the police chief couldn't afford a house in Los Gatos, so he bought one up in Redwood Estates. The town decided they wanted him to live closer in, so they helped him buy a house in Los Gatos.

For those who don't know, Redwood Estates isn't that far from Los Gatos but it's up in the Santa Cruz mountains. It's very easy to get stuck up there and not be able to get to town because of weather or car accidents.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

I don't know about firefighters, but I know for a fact that Los Gatos cops don't make enough to live near where they work or at least didn't when I was there. Their shifts were four on and three off. One guy used to commute from somewhere over by Livermore and he stayed in town with his parents for his four day shift and commuted back home for his three days off. Even the police chief couldn't afford a house in Los Gatos, so he bought one up in Redwood Estates. The town decided they wanted him to live closer in, so they helped him buy a house in Los Gatos.

For those who don't know, Redwood Estates isn't that far from Los Gatos but it's up in the Santa Cruz mountains. It's very easy to get stuck up there and not be able to get to town because of weather or car accidents.

Maybe the police and firemen will give up one day and we can see what happens with crime. Love to see the bay stay expensive then.

[sarahhorselover]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

The high speed railroad has 0 chance of being done by 2029. Remember how long the eastern span of the bay bridge took? Yeah we're going to have advanced AI before we build that boondoggle.

I remember when Highway 4 was going to be completely expanded by 2009. Then it was 2013. Then it was Fall of 2015 through the Hillcrest exit. Well it's April 2016 and that damn freeway is most definitely not expanded through the Hillcrest exit in either direction.

And this is just widening a freeway by two lanes! That can't even hold a candle to building an entire rail system. I hope my grandchildren live to see the high speed rail.

[rodentraiser]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Maybe the police and firemen will give up one day and we can see what happens with crime. Love to see the bay stay expensive then.

It's already happening with service people. Even 20 years ago people would complain to me all the time about why my boss didn't hire more people because they were tired of standing in line. The fact was we would hire people, over and over and over. But what we got were the flakes whose parents already provided them with free housing, schooling, free everything, as a matter of fact.

The people that were serious about their job and showed up on time were the ones who weren't being supported by anything except their salary, and that wasn't enough then to give them a decent place to live without commuting an hour or so each way.

Eventually, the commute becomes too much for these people or they find that all the surrounding cities are equally expensive and they move away to find jobs elsewhere. What's left are the kids who don't have to work for a living and why should they take their jobs seriously when their paycheck doesn't even amount to what their parents give them for a weekly allowance?

I myself commuted to Los Gatos while living out by Calero Reservoir in a trailer with holes in the floor and no heat except for space heaters. That was the only rent I could afford. And I was making $10/hr then. When that rent was almost doubled (in one month's time), I said buh-bye and went north 800 miles. I did the bookkeeping, the inventory, the payroll and when I needed to, I helped out on the front counter. I'd been with the company for 4 years and had worked in Los Gatos for 20 years before that. I liked my job and didn't want to leave, but you do what you have to do.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

It's already happening with service people. Even 20 years ago people would complain to me all the time about why my boss didn't hire more people because they were tired of standing in line. The fact was we would hire people, over and over and over. But what we got were the flakes whose parents already provided them with free housing, schooling, free everything, as a matter of fact.

The people that were serious about their job and showed up on time were the ones who weren't being supported by anything except their salary, and that wasn't enough then to give them a decent place to live without commuting an hour or so each way.

Eventually, the commute becomes too much for these people or they find that all the surrounding cities are equally expensive and they move away to find jobs elsewhere. What's left are the kids who don't have to work for a living and why should they take their jobs seriously when their paycheck doesn't even amount to what their parents give them for a weekly allowance?

I myself commuted to Los Gatos while living out by Calero Reservoir in a trailer with holes in the floor and no heat except for space heaters. That was the only rent I could afford. And I was making $10/hr then. When that rent was almost doubled (in one month's time), I said buh-bye and went north 800 miles. I did the bookkeeping, the inventory, the payroll and when I needed to, I helped out on the front counter. I'd been with the company for 4 years and had worked in Los Gatos for 20 years before that. I liked my job and didn't want to leave, but you do what you have to do.

We won't see change until the government employees get pushed out. Service employees leaving are an inconvenience. Government employees leaving is anarchy

[drive carephilly]

All Bay Area cities (and counties in unincorporated areas) are obliged by the State to permit a certain number of housing units over each 7 year period. If you take a look at this list you can see which cities/counties held up their end of the bargain, which didn't, and which places (Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale) weaseled out of building enough units to keep pace with their local job growth.
http://www.abag.ca.gov/files/RHNAPro...014_082815.pdf

The Bay Area population grew by +600,000 people over the 2007-2014 cycle but only 123,00 units were permitted. That's one unit for every 5 people. The national average is 2.9 people per household. The Bay Area average used to also be 2.9 but has grown to 3.1 because of the housing shortage. The rate of population growth has accelerated over the last 2 years but housing production has not.

The recession and the national housing market had a lot to do with the housing slowdown here but there is still tremendous opposition to new housing here as if this "don't build it and they won't come" mantra that's probably been around since the 70s has ever worked.

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Those states touch.

LOL. NY and PA do touch but it's nowhere near Philadelphia. To get from Philly to NYC you have to go through NJ. The distance - 95 miles - is the same as SF to Sacramento. Amtrak Acela can do the trip in 50 minutes. Amtrak Regional takes 1:10. SEPTA + NJTransit express takes 2:10

More to the point: the transportation infrastructure in the Bay Area is underbuilt for 6 million people let alone the 8 million people who live here now. The infra that does exist is generally antiquated (freeways built to 1960s standards, expensive rail tech that was all the rage in the late 1950s)is generally in poor condition, and as a result of the relative scarcity they're all overused. Compare the Bay Area to the transport infrastructure of peer metros - Chicago, DC/Baltimore, Philly, Boston, and DFW (all in the 7-10 million range) and you can see how far this place lags behind. Philly is the only one of those regions with a paltry expressway network but it has the regional rail network to make up for it.

[Moddedintegra56]

Originally Posted by pvande55

If the High Speed Rail line is ever commissioned, you'll see a lot of people commuting from the Central Valley.

for tech jobs for sure. fresno/clovis and bakersfield are big enough cities that they have plenty of jobs for teachers, law field, medical, basically everything except the tech sector.

those living in the valley getting paid bay area tech job money will definitely be living rich in the valley. and their commute will only be 40-60 mins in comfort. not 2+ hr traffic stress commute for people living only what should be a 1 hr away from the bay area, but still have to pay 2000-3000/mortgage

yea its going to happen

[candalf]

When I hear stories about someone commuting 2+ hours one way to be able to buy a house, I am a little perplexed.

First, why do you need to own a house? Really, what is so great about having that property title? Is that really necessary for human well being?

Second, if one has family, with that kind of commute, they probably will not be spending much quality time with them. In my experience, being emotionally and physically available to each other is what makes for a good family life. Much more so than one's house or neighborhood.

With regards to the gentleman commuting from Roseville to Palo Alto, I don't know him and am hesitant to pass judgement. However, San Leandro and Hayward would be within a 1hr commute radius and are comparable to Roseville in terms of pricing. They are not white picket fence types of places but aren't war zones either. I imagine that what would be taken away quality of life wise, would be made up by having a father and husband nearby.

So I guess I don't quite buy the stories about anyone *forced* into a mega commute. There appear to be more choices and it comes down to one's priorities.