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If you have a grid-tied system, you just have a transfer switch wired in to your circuit breaker box. That will completely separate the solar power from line power, and no repair crews will be injured. The panels themselves do not stop producing electricity.
You really become your own power provider when you set up a battery bank. Of all available systems, that is my choice (in my case, I have no choice, as I'm off grid). The batteries allow you to store your own generated power, rather than selling it to the utility. The latter method is a rip-off, as the utility won't pay you anywhere near what they charge you, for the same kilowatts.
Predictably, the utilities are not crazy about solar customers having their own battery banks!
I have a transfer switch already installed for the generator. The sales rep said that to run the house solely off the panels would require the battery banks which would be a significant jump in the price of the system I was looking at.
Yeah the rep warned me about the discrepancy between the power I send them and what they credit me. NYSEG has been ranting for years about having to deal with NUGs and their solar systems.
I've related this story in the past, but it bears re-telling
A few years ago the small village I was a part time LEO in had a village-wide power outage that lasted from roughly dinner time til maybe 2100 or 2200 hrs.
There are no stoplights in this village, no major grocery chains, 2 gas stations, you get the idea on approximate size.
So the power came back on, and the one gas station had a generator that kicked on but died during the outage. The other station had no back up power at all.
The station with the genny was flooded with residents who claimed they hadn't been able to eat during the power outage. A mere 3 or so hours and these people claimed that they had nothing to eat.
To top off that bit of wisdom, because the station had lost power, it had lost the uplink for any credit card approvals...gas cards at the pumps, charge cards in the store, none of them worked and didn't work til the day shift manager came in the next morning and reset the software. So it was pure cash and carry, and almost no one had any cash on them.
I only took pity on one person, a young mom who claimed she didn't have anything for her kid, and paid her bill out of pocket. The rest of them, they were on their own.
How much available cash to you guys keep on hand for such events? I generally keep around $1000 in my BOB at any given time, a mix of bills from $1 all the way up to $100 bills.
This spring a friend in a neighboring town was tossing around ideas for a new business he wanted to start. So he got an appointment with town planning board to discuss his ideas and
he asked a bunch of friends to attend this meeting to show support. We got there and the power was out, the town hall has no generator and no emergency lighting inside. We met in the only room that even has a window, so we were not in total darkness. The head town planner said that the entire county was without power and had not had power all day. There were four couples who had shown up for the meeting and none of us even knew the grid was down. It took a minute to realize that all four couples homes were off-grid. One of the few places in that town without backup power is the townhall.
Quote:
... One more thought...I've never lived in a place in the CONUS where losing power was a monthly event that was just accepted. I've heard of areas that had rolling blackouts and what not, and yeah in the winter weather-related stuff can happen at random times, but I'd be making plans for alternate power. Someone mentioned solar...I'm in the planning stages for solar, and I thought it would augment my generator during blackouts. Oh no, the solar rep said..the panels stop generating power if line power is lost because they don't want to fry repair crews on the lines...just something to think about
This state is 92% forest. Every time the wind blows trees blow down, and they take out power lines.
In the past ten years living here, our town has had one paved road and power runs alongside about half of that stretch of pavement. This year the county paved a second road, but none of that second road has any power line along it. The majority of land parcels in our township do not have access to power grid. The power line passing through our town then feeds multiple towns down stream, just as it passed through multiple towns before it got to our township. One tree blowdown on that line can take out power to a bunch of townships.
One of our neighbors bought into the marketing and financing available for net-metering systems. So now they have solar panels and 'spin the meter backwards' on sunny days. But they also lose power every time the grid goes down.
For an extra $5k you can get an automatic transfer switch that will isolate your home's power from the grid every time the grid goes down. Once you are not connected to the grid, you are 'islanding'
The power companies exert a lot of control with state legislatures and in forming policy over the tax credits and financing of net-metering systems. When you are getting a net-metering system, if you ask about battery-banks for backup power, they will shut down the conversation. It is not within the approved financing for net-metering systems to have any batteries.
Net-metering and battery-banks can be mixed in a single system, but the politics do not support such an idea.
I have a transfer switch already installed for the generator. The sales rep said that to run the house solely off the panels would require the battery banks which would be a significant jump in the price of the system I was looking at....
Marketing.
Panels all cost the same.
The net-metering invertor and components and inspections cost about the same as an off-grid invertor and batteries.
We priced out both options. We hit road blocks at the idea of combining net-metering with batteries. The salesmen do not allow it.
Our off-grid system ran us a slight bit less than our neighbor's net-metering system. But it was not a big difference.
Having emergency generators are great for short term events or events where they can easily be refueled. Solar or other alternative energy solutions are great too, but again for somewhat isolated events. The original post lamented grocery store food spoiling due to no backup. That's a waste but it is a business decision as to which is more cost effective, potential waste or the cost of backup power.
The original poster mentioned EMP, and that is another thing altogether. Say the grocery store had some kind of backup system that was EMP-proof. Greats, now you have a couple day supply of food before that store is empty with no re-supply trucks coming. How are you going to feed yourself in the weeks, months, and possibly years to come? With an EMP, nobody is coming to the rescue. Backup power at the grocery store isn't going to be of much help.
I've related this story in the past, but it bears re-telling
A few years ago the small village I was a part time LEO in had a village-wide power outage that lasted from roughly dinner time til maybe 2100 or 2200 hrs.
There are no stoplights in this village, no major grocery chains, 2 gas stations, you get the idea on approximate size.
So the power came back on, and the one gas station had a generator that kicked on but died during the outage. The other station had no back up power at all.
The station with the genny was flooded with residents who claimed they hadn't been able to eat during the power outage. A mere 3 or so hours and these people claimed that they had nothing to eat.
To top off that bit of wisdom, because the station had lost power, it had lost the uplink for any credit card approvals...gas cards at the pumps, charge cards in the store, none of them worked and didn't work til the day shift manager came in the next morning and reset the software. So it was pure cash and carry, and almost no one had any cash on them.
I only took pity on one person, a young mom who claimed she didn't have anything for her kid, and paid her bill out of pocket. The rest of them, they were on their own.
How much available cash to you guys keep on hand for such events? I generally keep around $1000 in my BOB at any given time, a mix of bills from $1 all the way up to $100 bills.
One more thought...I've never lived in a place in the CONUS where losing power was a monthly event that was just accepted. I've heard of areas that had rolling blackouts and what not, and yeah in the winter weather-related stuff can happen at random times, but I'd be making plans for alternate power. Someone mentioned solar...I'm in the planning stages for solar, and I thought it would augment my generator during blackouts. Oh no, the solar rep said..the panels stop generating power if line power is lost because they don't want to fry repair crews on the lines...just something to think about
IN retrospect I don't think I have ever lived someplace that DID NOT have enough generation to carry local loads. Grew up in a town with a big engine power plant. Every Navy base or ship I was on made or could make their own power. Have worked in the municipal power industry for 25yrs now and the 14 towns that I deal with specifically, have enough generation to carry town load in the Summer. We don't have outages for very long. Our Towns pride themselves on getting the lights on fast in the event of a transmission system failure. Has to be a Midwest thing. I don't thing many towns on the East coast can do this....
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