Public school quality - transplant parent opinions? (Tampa, Palm Harbor: broker, houses)

[Andre D]

My wife and I have more or less decided to move to the Tampa area to raise our three elementary school age children for personal reasons. We currently live in a nice safe Maryland neighborhood where we have a generally excellent public school system. I appreciate that Tampa public schools are generally not as good as public schools in the Northeast/Midwest, but I would like to get "transplant" parent opinions on comparisons to the better public schools around Tampa like Steinbrenner, Sickles, Newsome, etc.... Do you find that your children are getting a significantly worse educational experience?
I have read some older reviews on this website from transplant parents from MA and PA who claim the quality of education at the better Tampa public schools is similar and, in any case, depends a lot on parental support. Would also be interesting to know if kids graduating from the above mentioned high schools are admitted to the better colleges including Ivy League colleges. I know that a higher percentage of graduates from Northern public high schools go to Ivy League colleges, but does this mean that graduates from the above Tampa high schools are effectively excluded from going to such high quality colleges?
Lastly, I graduated from a very mediocre public school system in Western PA but managed to get admitted to an Ivy League school. While many of my teachers maybe weren't the best, they were all generally interested in teaching and I was able to learn enough to succeed. While the student body on average was not terribly impressive and only 30% of graduates went to college, we had our share of smart kids who went to Ivy League schools. While I appreciate our current schools in Maryland, I always tell my wife that our kids can and will succeed no matter what public school they attend... to a degree! :-)

[reasonablevoice]

Originally Posted by Andre D

My wife and I have more or less decided to move to the Tampa area to raise our three elementary school age children for personal reasons. We currently live in a nice safe Maryland neighborhood where we have a generally excellent public school system. I appreciate that Tampa public schools are generally not as good as public schools in the Northeast/Midwest, but I would like to get "transplant" parent opinions on comparisons to the better public schools around Tampa like Steinbrenner, Sickles, Newsome, etc.... Do you find that your children are getting a significantly worse educational experience?
I have read some older reviews on this website from transplant parents from MA and PA who claim the quality of education at the better Tampa public schools is similar and, in any case, depends a lot on parental support. Would also be interesting to know if kids graduating from the above mentioned high schools are admitted to the better colleges including Ivy League colleges. I know that a higher percentage of graduates from Northern public high schools go to Ivy League colleges, but does this mean that graduates from the above Tampa high schools are effectively excluded from going to such high quality colleges?
Lastly, I graduated from a very mediocre public school system in Western PA but managed to get admitted to an Ivy League school. While many of my teachers maybe weren't the best, they were all generally interested in teaching and I was able to learn enough to succeed. While the student body on average was not terribly impressive and only 30% of graduates went to college, we had our share of smart kids who went to Ivy League schools. While I appreciate our current schools in Maryland, I always tell my wife that our kids can and will succeed no matter what public school they attend... to a degree! :-)

I came too long ago to make an actual comparison, but I am confidant enough to say your kids can get a good education from the school districts you are talking about. My son and his peers all had SAT scores in the higher brackets (1300-1500). A few went to Ivy League schools, others to Duke, Univ. of Chicago, etc…., although most went to state schools. There is a scholarship program here (Bright Futures) that basically eliminates tuition at any state school if achieved. It requires decent SAT scores and 100 hours of community service. It is an example of something Florida does right. Where Florida does lack, is in the area of exceptional education. The services offered for students that need them are difficult to get from the school system.

Of the three high schools above, I would pick Steinbrenner because it is the one I am familiar with and I like the area. I am not familiar with Newsome, and I do not like that side of the Bay. I am certain the developments there are nice but I feel like it is far from everything (opinion). Plant and South Tampa are awesome but would compare to say Bethesda or Chevy Chase (if you can keep up, go for it; once again, opinion).

[EngGirl]

I feel like many people on this forum cannot compare Florida public school education with up north for lack of experience.
Kids can do well at school here - these who are interested do well and go to our of state top colleges without any issues. In fact, I have many example among my friends and co-worker kids who went to Ivy league schools. Parents involvement is a must, but kids must be bright and willing to learn too. It's doable.

Highly rated schools most of the time control housing prices, so houses are more expensive hence people with money are living in these areas. Kids from these families are more spoiled (brand new racing cars, easier access to all sort of drugs to name few common issues in these schools) and many don't give a crap about the school as they claim their parents can get them to any college of their choice.

On another hand, low rated schools have higher potential for these students who want to stand out and do better/ have higher gpa, be top of the class and so on. The issue is constant fights and different type of students as majority who could care less.

Bottom line, parents involvement is a must. Between all our children and multiple schools we only met few good teachers who cared about their job. Many didn't. Ironically, best teacher my kids had was not in top rated school, and teachers from 10 out of 10 schools were simply horrible (we had to hire private tutors that year).

[FL_Expert]

Please keep us posted on where you decide to go. If I were you, it would be between Chevel and South Tampa. South Tampa has the better schools, but maybe not worth the added cost. I’ll be interested to know where you end up.

[Andre D]

Interesting, so you believe teachers at the best schools like Steinbrenner, Sickles, Newsome, etc. are generally horrible? This is what I am trying to understand. I just find it odd that such highly rated schools in relatively wealthy neighborhoods are so bad.

[Andre D]

I'm looking at the Cheval area and Steinbrenner High School... after much online research and discussions.
Travelling there in a couple months with my wife and kids to meet my broker and tour the area.
My brother moved to Ft. Myers a couple years ago with his wife, and visits Tampa fairly often.

[EngGirl]

Highly rated schools my kids attended had some questionable teachers. Not all, but some. School rating does not guarantee you anything. Teaches and administration is what it matters. Many many families reported issues at highly rated schools were dismissed and parents were told they are free to leave as schools were so good they needed you. It's actually alarming and shows attitude. Of course it's irrelevant unless it effects you.

About school rating itself, it's not purely based on test results, but also depends on other factors such as percentages of minorities, number of reduce/free meals, number of students tested, and academic improvements over last year. Last part was changed not too long ago and what I feel hurts many good schools, in fact many A rated schools became B rated few years back because they didn't show required improvements while low rated schools was bumped up... no question low performing schools have room for growth vs schools that were on higher end had no chances. Of course it's within the state school comparison and doesn't address your question.

If we are talking about high schools, I would look into programs each school offers. If you want your kids to attend IB or Cambridge programs, you can zoned to any school and your kids can attend schools with these programs. Not all highly rated schools offer these. School rating is so biased on many levels. It all comes to parents involvement (I cannot stress it enough) and how lucky your kids will get with school administration and teachers. Higher rated schools don't guarantee anything other than keeping your house price up

[Andre D]

Thanks and I agree that a good school starts with its administration and, by extension, its teachers.
When I refer to "school ratings", I was actually referring to schools rated highly by members of this forum as well as reviewed well on other blogs and websites. I appreciate that official ratings are suspect and biased. For those ratings, I dig down to graduation rates, average test scores, etc. Having scoured through many reviews and ratings, that's how I arrived at the better schools including Plant, Steinbrenner, Sickles, Newsome, etc. Quite a few transplant parents have said good things about these schools. As you said, personal experience and personal involvement matters a lot. As parents we are very involved with our kids' learning. I just hope we have good experiences with teachers and admin.

[hokiepoke]

I truly believe that if the parent and kids are committed to be successful, it can happen "almost" anywhere. Having a good school, teachers network and program can only help. For us what worked (so far) has been to get good study habits early and aim for one of the magnet programs such as IB and/or Medical at Palm Harbor University HS. Doing this included pulling them out of private school to get them into the advanced classes before HS that were pre-requisites for better chance of admission into those programs.

I went to school back in the days up in Fairfax County in Northern VA and still have families there. It is one of the top school systems and we came here from North Dallas/Plano another high performance school area. We moved here 10 yrs ago with some reservation about schooling with our 3 elementary school kids knowing that surrounding yourself with high achievers will help in driving up your achievement and ambition. That was a challenge for us here being a parent was to continually drive our kids to not achieve the minimum but be the best they are capable of. It was tough when half their friends are slacking enjoying the laid back Florida lifestyle while we had them to do extracurricular sports, church community services, scouting with our support on top of keeping up top grades in their challenging magnet programs.

Our number two will be joining his junior sister in University of Florida in the fall and hopefully the last number three will go there as well in two years. Their peers in IB program have gone to big name schools like MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Cornell etc. UF is currently in the top 5 public university in the US and it has gotten incredibly competitive to get into. Bottom line is it's doable, just take a bit more work and commitment.

[MortonR]

While I have a reputation for trashing Hillsborough/Florida schools in general, most of the comments made in previous posts are pretty much spot-on.

There are good schools and not so good schools here, but understand that this is relative. The culture in education and with the general population here (although that has slowly been changing) is very different for a number of reasons, which I think has a great deal to do with the quality of (public) education in Florida. Quite frankly, it hasn't been a priority for many years, and as a result, is playing catch-up with other parts of the country. That, coupled with the county-wide school district arrangement in Florida compared to many areas in the north where school districts are community-based in cities, towns or townships, makes a big difference as well.

That being said, whether you're at Sulphur Springs or Steinbrenner, a great deal of the quality of your student's education is going to revolve around parental involvement and the commitment of the student. While I don't think the rigor of Florida's educational system comes close to that of northern schools, a parent can demand it in some respects. However, as a former teacher and administrative employee of many years, I can tell you that parental involvement is generally lousy. Socioeconomics aside, your child can attend the best rated school in the district, but if they have no drive and/or you as a parent aren't driving them to excellence, their take-away from the educational experience will be lackluster at best.

There are rigorous programs offered at magnet schools and elsewhere, but those will take some effort to gain entry, and do understand that as a new resident you're not eligible for them the first year you're here - you must establish residency (6 months, I believe) before being eligible unless the rules have been changed.

I worked with Newsome HS and can say from direct experience that the programs they have are quite rigorous and the students they graduate matriculate to some pretty impressive (Ivy League and others) universities. I think the "cachet" of Plant and Steinbrenner are more highly publicized on academics because of the demographics of the majority of their students - there's far more money and legacies behind these schools. I know of a fair number of average performing students coming out of both, so just phoning it in at either one is no guarantee of a good education or an invitation to a desirable university.

Also, the state college savings program siphons a lot of good talent off of out of state universities, I believe. Attend school in Florida, get good grades and do some volunteer work and you're pretty much guaranteed entry into a state school for minimal cost. It's a heck of a deal worth tens of thousands of dollars in tuition, and people would be foolish to pass on it - few do.

At the same time I'll put in a plug for Florida's community colleges. While not every student is cut out for college, the community college system is top-notch and provides opportunities for students who are on the edge of qualifying for a four year school or were marginalized students in high school to get into the system and get a good education for a very reasonable amount of money. Many of the students of friends and family have foregone trying to get into state schools as freshmen, which can be difficult and is quite competitive, to doing the first two years at a community college (after all, it's the same 100 and 200 level courses everyone has to take!) and then matriculating to a state school, which is guaranteed if they have good grades. That's a heck of a deal and can save some serious dollars - I know because one of my children, who was in gifted programs throughout their middle and high school career, opted to go this route. They were able to stay home, have a part time job and attend classes at HCC for their first two years, then get a spot at a state school in the program they wanted which they likely would not have gotten if they had tried to do so as a freshman. Their annual tuition at HCC was under $3,000 at the time.

RM