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If an AP class is to be what it is intended to be--a college class taught with college materials by a high school teacher to high school students, then as with any other college course, there should be a syllabus that is closely followed. Students experiencing difficulty should hire a tutor, just as if they were on a college campus. The alternative should be to drop the class, just as if they were enrolled in a post-secondary institution.
In non-AP classes, school administrations really need to look at their goals. Is it more important to meet the course objectives or to engage in social engineering? Heterogeneous grouping did not come about because administrators wanted to maximize each student's potential, but because there is a stigma attached to being in lower-track classes which also tend to have an over-representation of minority and low-SES students.
I believe that the College Board should periodically review each AP program to ensure that the coursework follows their guidelines. Too many schools are now moving to AP-for-all philosophies that will either result in massive failures of under-prepared students or significant diluting of the AP-level curriculum or both. There is always the law of unintended consequences.
I'm not sure if you were responding to my post or not, but since you quoted me, I'll just assume you didn't read this sentence:, "All of the students had to meet prerequisites to get in the class " and "..For a normal class, without pre-rec's (and all of our honor and AP classes have them)..." Yes, there is a strict syllabus that is followed and frankly, most of the classes in our High School are not heterogeneous. Only the electives are not leveled and some of them have pre-rec's. Our HS makes it very hard to switch out of classes, especially AP's and student's must sign a contract saying that they will do the work.
I think that there may be less slackers in harder classes but I don't know how you separate the slackers from the kids that just don't understand the material sometimes.
I'm not sure if you were responding to my post or not, but since you quoted me, I'll just assume you didn't read this sentence:, "All of the students had to meet prerequisites to get in the class " and "..For a normal class, without pre-rec's (and all of our honor and AP classes have them)..." Yes, there is a strict syllabus that is followed and frankly, most of the classes in our High School are not heterogeneous. Only the electives are not leveled and some of them have pre-rec's. Our HS makes it very hard to switch out of classes, especially AP's and student's must sign a contract saying that they will do the work.
I think that there may be less slackers in harder classes but I don't know how you separate the slackers from the kids that just don't understand the material sometimes.
I apologize for my lack of clarity. I was responding to your post, but didn't make myself clear that I was talking about my situation. Most of the classes in our school are not homogeneous. Our district has decided that ALL students will complete the college-prep curriculum unless their parents sign them into the general ed curriculum. There are apparently no longer any meaningful prerequisites for AP students.
Many of our students come from families where the parents, if they actually exist, are very uninvolved. This means that nearly all students must pass math through Algebra II, science through chemistry, and two years of foreign language (one year if they take an advanced math or science), even if they have failed all the state tests in basic algebra, English, biology, and history.
The result in my advanced college-prep class is that the bottom of the class may include up to half of the students. These are students who have no intention of going to college. Rather, many of them are enrolled only because they would lose eligibility for a driver's license or social programs if they dropped out. It is not unusual for students to be absent for 19 days in a row, then show up on the 20th day to avoid being dropped. There is a big grade gap between the students who almost pass, but don't put in the effort, and those who do almost nothing other than take up space in class. The latter are either chronically absent or disengaged from education in general.
There is a great deal of pressure on the school administrators by their superiors to get students enrolled in AP classes, even though we have never had a student make a qualifying score. I know of several semi-literate students who have been enrolled in AP English, even though they barely passed the state English test. The teacher doesn't really have the support to get the students placed in a more appropriate class, and some of the students are just not able to go from a sixth-grade reading level to using college materials in the time frame of a single school year. It is good preparation for them though, as they are the students who will be going to college. Many of the seniors in the regular classes never pass the tests required for graduation.
As far as the students being discussed by your committee, do they choose to take the AP classes or are they placed their administratively? If they choose to be there, then I agree that the chips should fall where they may. I believe that students should not be placed in AP classes without a choice. Even if their parents insist, it is still the student who has to do the work.
This conversation is interesting to me because I'm on a HS committee right now where we are discussing students in AP classes that slow down the rest of the class. All of the students had to meet prerequisites to get in the class so technically were deemed capable. IMHO, that means that some students are just not willing to do the work and the teachers should teach what they need to and let the chips fall where they may. If they do below C work, the grade is not weighted anyway so they are penalized. For a normal class, without pre-rec's (and all of our honor and AP classes have them) differentiated instruction seems to be key - but very time intensive for a large class. I honestly don't know how you teachers can do that day in and day out.
If an AP class is to be what it is intended to be--a college class taught with college materials by a high school teacher to high school students, then as with any other college course, there should be a syllabus that is closely followed. Students experiencing difficulty should hire a tutor, just as if they were on a college campus. The alternative should be to drop the class, just as if they were enrolled in a post-secondary institution.
Whaaaaa? And have the school drop a slot on Jay Mathews' Challenge Index because one fewer student is taking (note the difference between taking a class and passing an exam...) an AP class?
Quote:
I believe that the College Board should periodically review each AP program to ensure that the coursework follows their guidelines. Too many schools are now moving to AP-for-all philosophies that will either result in massive failures of under-prepared students or significant diluting of the AP-level curriculum or both. There is always the law of unintended consequences.
That's okay -- they'll still have a great Challenge Index score, don'tcha know? And the gifted kids will do fine anyway. Right?
As far as the students being discussed by your committee, do they choose to take the AP classes or are they placed their administratively? If they choose to be there, then I agree that the chips should fall where they may. I believe that students should not be placed in AP classes without a choice. Even if their parents insist, it is still the student who has to do the work.
The problem is, when the students fail, it's obviously the fault of the teacher. Of course.
How do you assign collaborative pairs? I have some students who have paired off by themselves and the relationships are, mutually, beneficial but I have other students who would prefer not to work with someone else.
I rotate them, but given that my classes are very small groups, there are only so many combinations possible. But I do the assigning most of the time.
MANY of my students would DEFINITELY prefer not to work with somebody else...they have autism, for the most part, after all, and collaboration represents even more of a challenge, accordingly, than it does for most. But many of them have goals we're addressing in their IEPs that call for them being able to sustain a given period of interaction with a peer group of a particular size, and over time, be able to work together successfully without exhibiting problematic behavior that impedes their learning and that of others around them. Only gets better through practice.
The problem is, when the students fail, it's obviously the fault of the teacher. Of course.
Yup. Even with a grading scale that will let any student pass with a 40% on tests, I STILL have kids fail because they don't do their work. Obviously, I am not doing my job right. If I were, they'd be doing their work!!!
I rotate them, but given that my classes are very small groups, there are only so many combinations possible. But I do the assigning most of the time.
MANY of my students would DEFINITELY prefer not to work with somebody else...they have autism, for the most part, after all, and collaboration represents even more of a challenge, accordingly, than it does for most. But many of them have goals we're addressing in their IEPs that call for them being able to sustain a given period of interaction with a peer group of a particular size, and over time, be able to work together successfully without exhibiting problematic behavior that impedes their learning and that of others around them. Only gets better through practice.
I have classes of 30 that range from students who struggle with the material to students smart enough to give me a run for my money if they choose to. Fortunately, I'm small game so most of them choose not to.. Seriously, I have about 4 kids who are way smarter than me.
Whaaaaa? And have the school drop a slot on Jay Mathews' Challenge Index because one fewer student is taking (note the difference between taking a class and passing an exam...) an AP class?
That's okay -- they'll still have a great Challenge Index score, don'tcha know? And the gifted kids will do fine anyway. Right?
I'd never heard of the Challenge Index. It doesn't figure in for us though, as our school usually ranks at or near the bottom of all the schools in the state in a state that rank at or near the bottom for all the states in the union.
A colleague used this metaphor: If schools were peas in a can, then we are on the bottom layer of peas in the bottom of a column of 50 cans of peas.
Even our gifted kids don't always have the basics mastered because of the low level of schooling that they have experienced. They don't really have a concept of what kids their ages are doing in top high schools around the country.
I have classes of 30 that range from students who struggle with the material to students smart enough to give me a run for my money if they choose to. Fortunately, I'm small game so most of them choose not to.. Seriously, I have about 4 kids who are way smarter than me.
I have a wide range of ability levels, as well (and quite the gamut of verbal communication ability).
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Yup. Even with a grading scale that will let any student pass with a 40% on tests, I STILL have kids fail because they don't do their work. Obviously, I am not doing my job right. If I were, they'd be doing their work!!! 
. Seriously, I have about 4 kids who are way smarter than me.
