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I'm sure that every state has there own form of teacher observations performed by principals and other administrators for use on their formal end of year evaluation. In Texas, I know that the state, TEA, requires 5 of these observations per school year for PDAS purposes. In my district, Comal ISD, the assistant superintendent, Dr. Jodi Duron has required that all principals and assistant principals to perform 25 informal walk-through observations per week. The net result at the middle school level is that every teacher can expect to received @ 40 of these observations per school year. They are entered electronically with many indicators to be marked & checked, such as teacher location, students engaged or not engaged, what level of Bloom's taxonomy, as well as a comments section. I'm just trying to get a sense as to where this kind of treatment & number of walk-throughs falls across districts in Texas and across the country. Please feel free to remark on the fairness of the practice. Should there be a limit. Should there be a difference between the number performed on veteran teachers vs. new teachers. Lastly, whether you think this is micro-managing. However, the over-all arching question is and should be whether this is good for teachers and/or the educational process in general. Keep in mind, what is bad for teachers is bad for kids / students.
I answered 11-20 only because I think less than 10 isn't enough. I think it takes, at least, 15 to have a good idea as to what a teacher does. Anything less and you may have just happened to walk through when they were having a bad day or a good day and get the wrong impression. As to formal evaluations, they kind of depend on the subject of the day. Last year, I had two. After one, the evaluator couldn't find enough nice things to say. The other went in the toilet. I'd like about a half dozen formal evaluations per year. That way, one bad day isn't half of my evaluations.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-16-2011 at 01:11 PM..
Keep in mind that in the corporate world, your boss sees your work every day....
I think it is GREAT that your district wants more teacher observations. What exactly is your complaint??? Why don't you want this to happen??
AND you see your coworkers work every day. In the real world, you can self assess by comparing yourself to your colleagues. That's hard to do in teaching.
I would rather my boss just see me work every day as opposed to walk throughs and formal evaluations. I have my good days and my bad days but overall I think I'm ok. It's too nerve wracking when evaluations are infrequent.
Keep in mind that in the corporate world, your boss sees your work every day....
I think it is GREAT that your district wants more teacher observations. What exactly is your complaint??? Why don't you want this to happen??
I would have thought that it would have been obvious, however, I'll do my best. 1st off, this isn't the corporate world, nice of you to compare apples to oranges. No worries though, you're not the 1st to make this unfair comparison. Supposedly, teachers are professionals in their own right. What otherprofession has such formally documented scrutiny? Moreover, in the corporate world, your boss isn't standing there with a clipboard formally documenting/evaluating your performance 40+ times per 9 months, if so, I dare say you'd be complaining as well. Not to mention, most people in the private sector have only 1 evaluation per quarter or year. Moreover, it's not that teachers aren't within sight and/or earshot of administration on a daily basis as well, they are in fact, "monitoring" our performance almost on a daily basis. Here's my problem in a nutshell, teachers are the most scrutinized, least respected professionals on the face of the planet.
BTW Haven't most corporations figured out that treating their employees well is good business and good for business. I know that Dell, and HEB (which I think is the largest grocery chain in Texas) have made this a top priority. I've heard that managers at HEB will themselves be fired regardless of their #'s if they continually receive poor ratings from their subordinates. This checks and balances system is not in place at any public school that I'm aware of. Teachers are forced into a grievance process that is more or less stacked against them and will leave them black balled.
I would have thought that it would have been obvious, however, I'll do my best. 1st off, this isn't the corporate world, nice of you to compare apples to oranges. No worries though, you're not the 1st to make this unfair comparison. Supposedly, teachers are professionals in their own right. What otherprofession has such formally documented scrutiny? Moreover, in the corporate world, your boss isn't standing there with a clipboard formally documenting/evaluating your performance 40+ times per 9 months, if so, I dare say you'd be complaining as well. Not to mention, most people in the private sector have only 1 evaluation per quarter or year. Moreover, it's not that teachers aren't within sight and/or earshot of administration on a daily basis as well, they are in fact, "monitoring" our performance almost on a daily basis. Here's my problem in a nutshell, teachers are the most scrutinized, least respected professionals on the face of the planet.
BTW Haven't most corporations figured out that treating their employees well is good business and good for business. I know that Dell, and HEB (which I think is the largest grocery chain in Texas) have made this a top priority. I've heard that managers at HEB will themselves be fired regardless of their #'s if they continually receive poor ratings from their subordinates. This checks and balances system is not in place at any public school that I'm aware of. Teachers are forced into a grievance process that is more or less stacked against them and will leave them black balled.
Actually, you're wrong. My boss evaluated my performance many times a day when I worked in industry. Every time I handed him a report or a test spec for review, he evaluated my work. Every time he saw me deal with a customer, he evaluated my work (we worked in cubicles so we watched each other work). What's different in teaching is your boss has to actually walk into your room to evaluate your work. He has to make a special trip. In industry, you work in the open. Teaching is more like R&D but even there you are working more in the open.
I also disagree on teachers being the most scrutinized (most complained about and disrespected, I'll give you but not scrutinized). For the most part, we work behind closed doors. When I was in industry, everything I did was done in the open for all to see and scrutinized on every level. Trust me, everyone from the techs to the upper level managers knew how good an engineer you were.
What I find different in teaching is I can't emmulate my peers who teach well because I never see them teach. I don't know who is a good teacher and who isn't. I know which teachers the kids and parents like but I don't know why they are liked.
Now, in industry, I was given only two formal reviews per year, as long as my boss had no complaints, but those reviews were not based on one moment in time when my boss decided to watch me work. They were based on several months of him watching me work. Evaluations are nerve wracking in teaching precisely because they aren't common place. The evaluation process is built into the work day in industry. I find teaching much more solitary and the lack of feedback and inability to watch my peers work disconcerting. Because I can't self assess, by comparing myself to other teachers because I can't watch them work, I'm nervous about PR's. I was never nervous about PR's in industry. I knew how I stacked up before I walked into the room.
I think evaluations need to be so common place that they're just part of the work day. I also think we should be able to watch our peers work. You can learn a lot watching a master work.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-16-2011 at 04:06 PM..
Actually, you're wrong. My boss evaluated my performance many times a day when I worked in industry. Every time I handed him a report or a test spec for review, he evaluated my work. Every time he saw me deal with a customer, he evaluated my work (we worked in cubicles so we watched each other work). What's different in teaching is your boss has to actually walk into your room to evaluate your work. He has to make a special trip. In industry, you work in the open. Teaching is more like R&D but even there you are working more in the open.
I also disagree on teachers being the most scrutinized (most complained about and disrespected, I'll give you but not scrutinized). For the most part, we work behind closed doors. When I was in industry, everything I did was done in the open for all to see and scrutinized on every level. Trust me, everyone from the techs to the upper level managers knew how good an engineer you were.
What I find different in teaching is I can't emmulate my peers who teach well because I never see them teach. I don't know who is a good teacher and who isn't. I know which teachers the kids and parents like but I don't know why they are liked.
Now, in industry, I was given only two formal reviews per year, as long as my boss had no complaints, but those reviews were not based on one moment in time when my boss decided to watch me work. They were based on several months of him watching me work. Evaluations are nerve wracking in teaching precisely because they aren't common place. The evaluation process is built into the work day in industry. I find teaching much more solitary and the lack of feedback and inability to watch my peers work disconcerting. Because I can't self assess, by comparing myself to other teachers because I can't watch them work, I'm nervous about PR's. I was never nervous about PR's in industry. I knew how I stacked up before I walked into the room.
I think evaluations need to be so common place that they're just part of the work day. I also think we should be able to watch our peers work. You can learn a lot watching a master work.
Many good points and insights, I'm still going to have to disagree on the formality aspect, semantics really, the direct documentation is what is so concerning to me and the real threat of misuse of this evaluative process. In teaching, as you know, we too undergo other forms of evaluation, similar to your report example. Every time 6 -9 weeks when we test kids district wide, our scores are disseminated, picked over with a fine tooth comb, who's kids are doing well which grade level needs to do better etc... I think you are right about the collaborative aspect, unfortunately the "open concept" idea has been tried and failed. And, will they ever give us time to go and see other teachers teach, NO, that would require getting a substitute, $$$. I was fortunate in may ways, my 1st few years in teaching was spent as a co-teacher. So I got to see many styles and even different subjects being taught. You're right, it was beneficial. But, we are each so unique, what works for you may not work for me. It's so hard to evaluate who's way is "good," thats part of the problem, it's not so straight forward. Are you a good parent? There are those that would probably disagree for example. But you are absolutely correct in the anxiety produced by this process, and over 40 per year is about enough to turn anyone sour against it. Basically, the evil produced is way too high. Now, couple that with administration that considers themselves to be such masters of the field that they have no qualms with documenting even the smallest negative aspects of your class, it just becomes this "gotcha" game, a weekly if not daily beat-down experience. It's just been about the most demoralizing experience of my life. Listen, I know you are still in the field, so, my prayers are with you... Good Luck!
I don't really have much of an opinion of observations as a teacher. Nobody in our school is under PDAS anymore since the last new teacher was hired in 2007. Last year I was observed a total of 0 times and the year before was the greatest number at 4. I have 6 years of teaching. One of the reasons I like teaching is that I feel like as long as I get results, the day to day stuff is totally up to me. In other jobs I felt like it was more about whether the boss liked you or not and putting up with b/s on a daily basis. I'm the master of my domain here as long as I get results and get positive reviews from parents and students.
Many good points and insights, I'm still going to have to disagree on the formality aspect, semantics really, the direct documentation is what is so concerning to me and the real threat of misuse of this evaluative process. In teaching, as you know, we too undergo other forms of evaluation, similar to your report example. Every time 6 -9 weeks when we test kids district wide, our scores are disseminated, picked over with a fine tooth comb, who's kids are doing well which grade level needs to do better etc... I think you are right about the collaborative aspect, unfortunately the "open concept" idea has been tried and failed. And, will they ever give us time to go and see other teachers teach, NO, that would require getting a substitute, $$$. I was fortunate in may ways, my 1st few years in teaching was spent as a co-teacher. So I got to see many styles and even different subjects being taught. You're right, it was beneficial. But, we are each so unique, what works for you may not work for me. It's so hard to evaluate who's way is "good," thats part of the problem, it's not so straight forward. Are you a good parent? There are those that would probably disagree for example. But you are absolutely correct in the anxiety produced by this process, and over 40 per year is about enough to turn anyone sour against it. Basically, the evil produced is way too high. Now, couple that with administration that considers themselves to be such masters of the field that they have no qualms with documenting even the smallest negative aspects of your class, it just becomes this "gotcha" game, a weekly if not daily beat-down experience. It's just been about the most demoralizing experience of my life. Listen, I know you are still in the field, so, my prayers are with you... Good Luck!
In industry, bosses are free to doctument anything at any time. The real difference is in that teachers are evaluated a lot less than other workers so the whole evaulation process is strange. When I was a supervisor, I was, constantly, noting the quality of my employees work and their effort and that's the way I prefer it.
Personally, I feel safer if my boss sees me work all the time and I see my peers work all the time because I can self assess and evaluation isn't some strange thing they do twice a year. I HATE having my PR based on only a couple of observations per year. They should have to watch me teach for a month straight before they can give me an evaluation.
I wish I got to watch my peers teach but there really isn't time. IMO, new teachers should have two preps. One to get their work done and one during which they are required to observe other teachers or meet with their mentor.
I'm sure that every state has there own form of teacher observations performed by principals and other administrators for use on their formal end of year evaluation. In Texas, I know that the state, TEA, requires 5 of these observations per school year for PDAS purposes. In my district, Comal ISD, the assistant superintendent, Dr. Jodi Duron has required that all principals and assistant principals to perform 25 informal walk-through observations per week. The net result at the middle school level is that every teacher can expect to received @ 40 of these observations per school year. They are entered electronically with many indicators to be marked & checked, such as teacher location, students engaged or not engaged, what level of Bloom's taxonomy, as well as a comments section. I'm just trying to get a sense as to where this kind of treatment & number of walk-throughs falls across districts in Texas and across the country. Please feel free to remark on the fairness of the practice. Should there be a limit. Should there be a difference between the number performed on veteran teachers vs. new teachers. Lastly, whether you think this is micro-managing. However, the over-all arching question is and should be whether this is good for teachers and/or the educational process in general. Keep in mind, what is bad for teachers is bad for kids / students.
Wow, just wow!! It isn't nearly that bad in arkansas tho I'm guessing it varies by school district.
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