Teachers: are the students who get poor grades in your classes mostly stupid or lazy-- or something else? (degrees, demand)
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As a part time Community College Instructor I am constantly amazed at the students who do poorly in tests and class assignments. I am trying to understand why?
Is it me, maybe I did not do a very good job presenting the material, or explaining what would be tested. I doubt it because 75% of the students do well.
Or maybe the student is just lazy and does not want to learn. Or maybe the student just has learning issues, a low IQ, or psychological or emotional problem.
What do you think is the main reason some students don't pass your class? Their mind, or their effort?
I've done some teaching at the community college and so has my husband. I think that some of the students think of it as 13th grade. When I began college over 20 years ago, it seems to me that students back then were higher quality. I took a class a year or so ago and couldn't believe what I was seeing. So many of the students were so slovenly and had an attitude to match.
My husband teaches automotive and would really get t-ed off. The classes were several hours long because of the time needed to spend in the shop. Some of the young men who were right out of high school would take their 15 minute break and turn it into over an hour every day. On top of that, these same young men would be late every day and not do any reading assignments or studying for the class.
As an adult, I cannot imagine a situation where I should blame the instructor for my failure in a class. Information is just too readily available and I feel the onus is on me to learn. Not that the teacher is absolved of all responsibility, but how do you not get at least a B in a class that you take at the community college?
If the students' overall improvement is low no matter their grade, then I blame myself. If the student actually gets low grades in the class, then it's usually because they are lazy or just don't care. Young guys are the worst offenders - they do the break thing to me too. I give them 20 minutes, tell them to be back on time, and they stroll in an hour later. They never do ANY homework that they don't absolutely need to do in order to pass, and sometimes not even that.
Only exception is the kids who are working a lot. They are also late and don't do homework, but it's because they are working long hours every day and often it conflicts with class. I do what I can for them, but ultimately I can't make time that they don't have. That's the minority, though.
If the students' overall improvement is low no matter their grade, then I blame myself. If the student actually gets low grades in the class, then it's usually because they are lazy or justdon't care. Young guys are the worst offenders - they do the break thing to me too. I give them 20 minutes, tell them to be back on time, and they stroll in an hour later. They never do ANY homework that they don't absolutely need to do in order to pass, and sometimes not even that.
Only exception is the kids who are working a lot. They are also late and don't do homework, but it's because they are working long hours every day and often it conflicts with class. I do what I can for them, but ultimately I can't make time that they don't have. That's the minority, though.
If the bulk of the students are doing well, then it is the failing student's fault. It happens for a number of reasons, including that they have been taught by the public K-12 education system that someone else is responsible for their learning/grades instead of themselves.
I really think there needs to be some context, for example:
I'm an A student, my lowest grade has been a B which was my first college class and what I found out later was one of the hardest classes in my track. Currently, I'm taking a health psychology course and I am struggling to even pass. I got a 64 on one exam and a 60 on another, I have 1 exam left and a term paper which will determine my grade.
This is an online class and the instructor has been far from useful. Every email I get back is a 1 word answer or very short and condescending. In addition, the webcasts he uploaded are from the early 2000s... it is pixelated, grainy, and very unclear. Parts of his lectures don't align with the readings and some facts are misleading and often contradict what's in the text.
I also think that there are too many possible answers here. I consider myself a "veteran student" at this point with all the hours I have... I have had the absolute worst instructors and then the rest who were sometimes great and generally "good enough" and I generally get good grades. I know from first hand experience how an instructor can kill the grades of even a "good" student though.
I would say that if most students are doing well then yes, those remaining students are just not taking it seriously. Or, perhaps they are well intentioned but too immature, or have not yet figured out how to manage their time. Some students (I was one) never needed to study at all in high school... then they get to a community college class and actually need to study and have NO idea how to do so. I had to ask my friends who had degrees for specific advice on how to study! Sounds crazy but I was clueless because in high school things were pretty easy for me (even though i dropped out). I skipped class half the time then still showed up and made A's on tests and papers.
College, even community college, demanded more of me and i was at a loss as to how to go about it. I did get it together but it took a bit of a shift in attitude for me.
I've done some teaching at the community college and so has my husband. I think that some of the students think of it as 13th grade. When I began college over 20 years ago, it seems to me that students back then were higher quality. I took a class a year or so ago and couldn't believe what I was seeing. So many of the students were so slovenly and had an attitude to match.
My husband teaches automotive and would really get t-ed off. The classes were several hours long because of the time needed to spend in the shop. Some of the young men who were right out of high school would take their 15 minute break and turn it into over an hour every day. On top of that, these same young men would be late every day and not do any reading assignments or studying for the class.
As an adult, I cannot imagine a situation where I should blame the instructor for my failure in a class. Information is just too readily available and I feel the onus is on me to learn. Not that the teacher is absolved of all responsibility, but how do you not get at least a B in a class that you take at the community college?
This is what they're used to. If you listen to the media, teachers, NOT students, are respsonsible for the dismal state of education. They are used to everyone being blamed for their failure except them.
I returned to college 20 years after I first started to get a degree in education. I was stunned by the laziness and expectation they'd get a good grade just for existing. I call this special snowflake syndrome. They grew up being told how special they are and it doesn't dawn on them that special is a special does.
i am a high school dropout (found it uninteresting) who attended community college. i did attend senior college later and went on to finish post graduate work. no one taught me how to study (grade school teaches material, not process). i always scored at the top of my class NOT because i am some type of genius. it is because i always handed in assignments before they were due. always. i also never missed class and set up study groups for various subjects. i understood i had a responsibility. in terms of focusing, i was able to do this because i sat down one day and asked myself how i can be a professional student. with trial and error, i learned how to learn. why aren't students taught this from kindergarten? this was back in 1996 so i did have some internet research tools but i used my time at the library in the college.
this is why students do poorly:
they were not taught how to study and be a professional student (by far the biggest flaw)
they see college as school. it is not school. it is job training. there IS a future. they think that when you graduate, you wear some stupid wizard hat and walk down an aisle and that's it.
participation trophy generation (if you show up, you will get paid, either via grades or an actual job)
outside work/having kids to take care of conflicts with energy required to mentally focus and study
friends - probably underrated and should be mentioned. don't keep friends beyond colleagues. this isn't high school anymore. this is the work world where adults live. adults live around their own needs which is nearly always financially based, not around what the coolest new sneaker is or the latest song on the radio. and in capitalism, everyone makes their own money. no one cares about you, where you will move, or how you live. you are on your own.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 04-26-2013 at 11:03 AM..
Reason: removed lewd comment
As a part time Community College Instructor I am constantly amazed at the students who do poorly in tests and class assignments. I am trying to understand why?
Is it me, maybe I did not do a very good job presenting the material, or explaining what would be tested. I doubt it because 75% of the students do well.
Or maybe the student is just lazy and does not want to learn. Or maybe the student just has learning issues, a low IQ, or psychological or emotional problem.
What do you think is the main reason some students don't pass your class? Their mind, or their effort?
roughly on any given test in one of my "honors" classes about 75-80% of the class will pass (depends on the topic sometimes). in my "regular" sections it flip flops to about 20-25% pass.
a better question would be why do these kids pass or do well?
1.) critical thinkers - some are just very analytical and can pass objective and subjective assessments without doing any actual prep work for them. this past august i gave my students a pre-test made up of 50 questions from the 1996 AP US History test and one of my kids scored an 80% on it having never taken the class nor doing any prep work in advance. just showed up the first day, took it, nailed it. amazing. some are just brighter than others and at the high school thats probably because they've been engaged in school for a while now. so it's built up over time.
2.) they study longer, harder, better than others - i have a few students who lack critical thinking skills yet study their rear ends off and do well. very few kids want to put in the time necessary though for this option.
3.) it's just what they're good at. this kind of relates back to option 1. i have some students who for whatever reason are just exceptional at US History / social studies in general and while they may end up with C's and D's in English, Spanish or even Math. they can get A's in on a US History Test. (side note - others are just the opposite).
4.) I think a 4th option, a more social option is they aren't aware of HOW TO STUDY because they're not around anyone out of school who has a degree beyond high school or in some cases does not have a high school diploma period. this one probably coincides with option 2 to a certain degree.
with all that being said it still amazes me that i give them at the beginning of each unit a 1.) key concepts list 2.) a unit reading 3.) i e-mail them all the notes at the beginning and some of them still will not use them and then fail and then give up and it goes down hill from there.
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I have had the absolute worst instructors and then the rest who were sometimes great and generally "good enough" and I generally get good grades. I know from first hand experience how an instructor can kill the grades of even a "good" student though. 
