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Hello Sound of Reason. I am a physical educator. I am not angry with your comments, your misconception is very common.
Your view of what a PE teacher is and what he/she does is one of an archaic "gym teacher". However, I am sure that your "PE teacher" (or lack there of) was much like mine and rolled out the balls and left school at 3:00 on the dot.
You are correct that a physical educators job is VERY different from that of an academic teacher. However, your assertions that a PE teacher's job is notably less valuable than that of other teachers is incorrect.
Before I explain to you how each of your assumptions about the job duties differences are incorrect I must remind you; any math, science or history teacher could have went to school to be a PE teacher, but I am sure you think they are much above becoming the "guy who rolls the balls out". No one forces academic subject teachers into their positions, therefore if what you are claiming were true than many potential educators who are aware of the salary schedules would elect to become a PE teacher. They would want to have the "cushy" job where you do not do anything other than "roll the ball out" and "send the kids out to play". Further proof of this; I have taught physical education at the elementary and secondary level and as far as comments received about job difficulty the most common thing I hear is "I don't know how you do it" as opposed to "I wish I had your job". This is mainly because unlike you academic teachers appreciate the ability PE teachers have to maintain a safe moving environment for students while having enough energy to keep up with them, which to me is not an anxiety inducing burden, but it is to them.
I AM TYPING IN CAPS TO HELP IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE INITIAL COMMENTS AND MY RESPONSES
"Here's what's often typical:"
- Send kids outside to play on the field letting them run around the track, play soccer, play kickball, etc., all their choice...... YOU ARE CONFUSING "GYM" WITH RECESS.
- Have them play kickball in the gym...... IF A PE TEACHER ONLY PLAYS KICKBALL, THE MATH TEACHER ONLY TEACHES ADDITION, ONLY ADDITION USING OUTDATED METHODS AS KICKBALL IS OLD NEWS IN THE PE WORLD
- Have them play volleyball in the gym after they pull out the nets and give a brief overview of the rules..... A TYPICAL PE LESSON WOULD INCLUDE A DEBRIEF ON HOW THE INFORMATION PERTAINS TO FUTURE AND PREVIOUS LESSONS ALONG WITH A SKILL DEMONSTRATION, OPPORTUNITIES TO PRACTICE SKILL FOLLOWED BY ACTIVITIES USING THE SKILL. WHILE RECEIVING SPECIFIC FEEDBACK.
- Have them do jumping jacks and stretching.... YES, WE OCCASIONALLY DO JUMPING JACKS AND SINCE YOU HAD A TERRIBLE PE TEACHER I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE UNDERMINING THE IMPORTANCE OF STRETCHING AS IT PERTAINS TO FLEXIBILITY AND HEALTH RELATED PHYSICAL FITNESS (QUIZ: ARE YOU ABDUCTING OR ADDUCTING THE DELTOID MUSCLE WHEN YOUR ARMS GOING UP DOING A JUMPING JACK?)
- Tell the kids to run around a certain area..... SEE ABOVE
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
On the other hand, an academic teacher gets paid on the same pay scale, and has to:
- Plan lessons daily... THIS IS FALSE, SCHOOLS THAT REQUIRE LESSON PLANS TO BE TURNED IN COLLECT PLANS WEEKLY. ALL TEACHERS INCLUDING PE MUST TURN IN PLANS. AND BEFORE YOU THINK "ACADEMIC TEACHERS HAVE MORE LESSONS TO PLAN", I HAVE 400 STUDENTS FROM 6 DIFFERENT GRADE LEVELS AND I TEACH EVERYONE OF THEM THROUGHOUT THE WEEK. CLASSROOM HAS ABOUT 20 STUDENTS OR THEY ONLY TEACH ONE SUBJECT. FURTHERMORE, MANY MANY SCHOOLS PURCHASE THEIR ACADEMIC CURRICULUM AND REMEDIATION MATERIALS FROM LARGE COMPANIES, THESE PRODUCTS ALL HAVE THE LESSON PLANS CREATED AND INCLUDED. I COULD GO ON BUT YOU GET THE POINT. ALL TEACHERS WORK HARD ON PLANNING.
- Grade hundreds of papers.... DATA IS A PUSH IN ALL SUBJECTS I ALSO DO ASSESSMENTS IN HEALTH AND PE, GRADE PROJECTS AND PAPERS AS WELL AS RUBRIC GRADE MOVEMENT COMBINATIONS
- Make copies..... SERIOUSLY THOUGH, HOW ABOUT CARRY AROUND A LOT OF EPUIPMENT, SETUP/BREAKDOWN REMEMBER DIFFERENT AGE LEVEL/ACTIVITY EVERY 45 MINS
- Have parent-teacher conferences... I HAVE 400 STUDENTS MORE THAN ANY ACADEMIC TEACHER. YOU ARE NAIVE TO THINK WE DO NOT MEET WITH PARENTS AS WELL AS COMMUNICATE WITH THEM ON THE PHONE AND EMAIL
- Common subject area planning..... ?SEE PLANNING ABOVE. 400 STUDENTS, 6 GRADE LEVELS, 6 DIFFERENT CLASSES A DAY WITH PLANNED LESSONS FOCUSED ON THE DEVELOPMENT, UTILIZATION AND PROFICIENCY OF SKILLS.
- Grade level meetings..... LIKE LESSON PLAN DUE DATES, SPECIALISTS/ ELECTIVE TEACHERS ALSO HAVE PROFESSIONAL LEARNING COMMUNITIES (PLC MEETINGS), SAME AS GRADE LEVEL TEACHERS
- IEP meetings...... GUESS WHAT? CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES ARE ENTITLED TO LEARNING ABOUT THE VALUE OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITY ALSO. I ATTEND MANY IEP MEETINGS AS OFTEN TIMES THESE CHILDRENS DISABILITIES EFFECT THEM PHYSICALLY.
- Rigorously teach, day to day..... TEACHERS OF ALL SUBJECTS SHOULD BE ACTUALLY TEACHING THINGS. IS THERE ALSO ACADEMIC TEACHERS WHO BRIEFLY LECTURE AND ISSUE BUSY WORK WHILE THE LOOK AT THE COMPUTER? THIS TEACHER AND THE ROLL THE BALL OUT TEACHER ARE BOTH BAD TEACHERS.
- Provide extra help to students who are struggling.... TUTORING IS OFTEN A CASH BUSINESS AS IS FITNESS TRAINING. SCHOOLS DO A GOOD JOB OF MAKING SURE ALL TEACHERS ARE HELPING IN WAYS.
- Manage the classroom (less necessary for PE).... THIS IS THE MOST FALSE ASSUMPTION. CHILDREN MOVING, PLAYING OFTEN COMPETING IS NOT ONLY MORE DANGEROUS BUT ALSO TRIGGERS MORE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS AND CONFLICTS, DUH.
- Contact parents of misbehaving students...., YOU CLEARLY WENT TO THE WORST SCHOOL I HOPE YOU DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN THERE IF THEIR SPECIALS TEACHERS ARE DISMISSED FROM ALERTING PARENTS TO BEHAVIOR AND SAFETY SITUATIONS
- Morning or afternoon duty in some districts.... AGAIN THIS IS FOR ALL TEACHERS. ALL TEACHERS MUST SERVE DUTIES EQUALLY IT IS WHY WE ALL GET PAID THE SAME, GET IT?
"Dare I say...." you dare not say that the job is not physically demanding. I have previously worked as a landscaper (10 hour shifts) and at an insulation plant, transporting tens of thousands of lbs. of materials every shift. Working with children is more tiring than both of those jobs. Working with children is physically demanding for all teachers. Even more so with PE teachers who demonstrate physical skills 6 times a day and many times workout with students and at a minimum are setting up equipment and standing/walking on their feet all day. Many classroom teachers sit.
Based on your generalizations about PE teachers I must assume you also feel that music, dance and art teachers are less valuable than math teachers etc... If you would like I can have my colleagues who teach these subjects explain to you the specs of their jobs so they can validate themselves and continue to earn your hard earned tax money.
I am in no way complaining about my job, I love my job. I am only validating myself to you so you can stop lobbying to have my low wages reduced further.
Lastly, I hope you are not downplaying the importance of physical education as a subject either. As we continue to see a rise in obesity, heart disease and diabetes I would think that you would not want to question the value of a subject that is meant to teach students the importance of a healthy and active lifestyle. I suppose to you it is more important to know the cell structure of a leaf cell and the names of ancient emperors along with the dates they went on their conquests than to preventing heart disease.
Some of you are seriously thoughmisguided. My first class in PE was a 5 credit anatomy weeder course. 8- 200 point tests. Yes 8!!!And new PE teachers dont just roll out the balls. In fact I would say its much easier to teach math than physical skills. And coaching....well.... simplified is this. Coaching is the PINNACLE of teaching. Lets see any of you math or science guys teach 30 students how to swing a golf club or tennis racquet. Evaluate. Give feedback..organize on the fly.
Some of you are seriously thoughmisguided. My first class in PE was a 5 credit anatomy weeder course. 8- 200 point tests. Yes 8!!!And new PE teachers dont just roll out the balls. In fact I would say its much easier to teach math than physical skills. And coaching....well.... simplified is this. Coaching is the PINNACLE of teaching. Lets see any of you math or science guys teach 30 students how to swing a golf club or tennis racquet. Evaluate. Give feedback..organize on the fly.
Well, this science teacher taught kids not only AP Chemistry and AP Physics, but how to run a fly pattern, or a 10-yard down-and-out, as well as how to pole vault, triple jump, high jump, throw a discus, etc.
PE teachers have it easier than most other high school teachers. Actually, I personally think that K-4 teachers have it easier than upper level teachers just because of the grading.
That being said, PE is just as important as other classes. Physical health is something we need to be focusing more on in this country.
PE teachers have it easier than most other high school teachers. Actually, I personally think that K-4 teachers have it easier than upper level teachers just because of the grading.
That being said, PE is just as important as other classes. Physical health is something we need to be focusing more on in this country.
They don't. Because my husband's career made us move frequently, I had to be very flexible when it came to what jobs I was willing to apply for and accept, so I have a bit more variety on my resume than most teachers. Admittedly, the highest level I ever taught was 9th grade, but the year I worked the longest and the hardest was the year I taught kindergarten. Elementary teachers don't get the credit they deserve for how hard they work. They also don't get credit for the difficulties unique to teaching at their level.
I primarily taught middle school, and I found most people who never taught that level more than willing to acknowledge it had its pitfalls, but I would much rather teach that level than ever teach kindergarten or primary. Middle school was "easier" for me because it suited me better. However, for other teachers, being a middle school teacher would be an absolute disaster and probably the hardest, most difficult year of their teaching career, if it didn't end their career.
I have read your posts addressing various problems in education. Your philosophies and style, while probably fine for what you teach, would probably be a disaster below the high school level and maybe even in some different subjects at the high school level. If you ever tried a lower level, while you might find you spend less time grading, you would discover that you spend far more time doing other things - such as creating meaningful work that needs to be highly interactive and, if at all possible, hands on. Keep in mind it must be short in duration (5-10 minutes, 20 minutes maximum) and you will have the same students all day, along with being responsible for all core content plus other subjects, so you will not be able to repeat anything. That means at minimum planning anywhere from 15-30 different lessons. Oh, and there will be lots of IEPs, or worse, students who haven't been identified as special ed yet but need to be. And, of course, there is no tracking and no self-selection of students who express at least a little interest in the subject. To top it off, at the lower level, many principals demand written stratagies for differentiation as part of your lesson plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson
PE teachers have it easier than most other high school teachers.
I find this humorous coming from a foreign language teacher, whom many classroom teachers consider as having a cakewalk job. Here is their take on your subject as a teacher:
You aren't subjected to high stakes testing pressure.
You most likely don't teach a required class.
Your students self-select your class so they have an interest in the subject.
You most likely to have only college-bound students.
If a student couldn't hack level 1 of your subject, they don't take level 2.
You have few, if any, students on an IEP.
I get so tired of teachers at one level or in different subjects failing to appreciate that every grade level and/or every subject has its advantages and disadvantages.
Now, having also taught adults, I am more than willing to agree that teaching adults is far easier than at any other level. Every single person I have met that has done both post-secondary and K-12 has agreed with me. They may not have enjoyed it as much, but it was easier. The mere fact that the responsibility for learning shifts from the teacher to student all by itself makes it a less stressful job.
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They don't. Because my husband's career made us move frequently, I had to be very flexible when it came to what jobs I was willing to apply for and accept, so I have a bit more variety on my resume than most teachers. Admittedly, the highest level I ever taught was 9th grade, but the year I worked the longest and the hardest was the year I taught kindergarten. Elementary teachers don't get the credit they deserve for how hard they work. They also don't get credit for the difficulties unique to teaching at their level.
I primarily taught middle school, and I found most people who never taught that level more than willing to acknowledge it had its pitfalls, but I would much rather teach that level than ever teach kindergarten or primary. Middle school was "easier" for me because it suited me better. However, for other teachers, being a middle school teacher would be an absolute disaster and probably the hardest, most difficult year of their teaching career, if it didn't end their career.
I have read your posts addressing various problems in education. Your philosophies and style, while probably fine for what you teach, would probably be a disaster below the high school level and maybe even in some different subjects at the high school level. If you ever tried a lower level, while you might find you spend less time grading, you would discover that you spend far more time doing other things - such as creating meaningful work that needs to be highly interactive and, if at all possible, hands on. Keep in mind it must be short in duration (5-10 minutes, 20 minutes maximum) and you will have the same students all day, along with being responsible for all core content plus other subjects, so you will not be able to repeat anything. That means at minimum planning anywhere from 15-30 different lessons. Oh, and there will be lots of IEPs, or worse, students who haven't been identified as special ed yet but need to be. And, of course, there is no tracking and no self-selection of students who express at least a little interest in the subject. To top it off, at the lower level, many principals demand written stratagies for differentiation as part of your lesson plans.
I find this humorous coming from a foreign language teacher, whom many classroom teachers consider as having a cakewalk job. Here is their take on your subject as a teacher:
You aren't subjected to high stakes testing pressure.
You most likely don't teach a required class.
Your students self-select your class so they have an interest in the subject.
You most likely to have only college-bound students.
If a student couldn't hack level 1 of your subject, they don't take level 2.
You have few, if any, students on an IEP.
I get so tired of teachers at one level or in different subjects failing to appreciate that every grade level and/or every subject has its advantages and disadvantages.
Now, having also taught adults, I am more than willing to agree that teaching adults is far easier than at any other level. Every single person I have met that has done both post-secondary and K-12 has agreed with me. They may not have enjoyed it as much, but it was easier. The mere fact that the responsibility for learning shifts from the teacher to student all by itself makes it a less stressful job.
I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't meaning to.
I'm sure a K-5 teacher has it much harder than I do in terms of fun activities. I must admit, I pretty much suck at coming up with super fun activities. Interestingly enough, our department chair is from Spain and is very old school. Most of the activities she wants the department to do are boring. It's been a struggle getting out of my college teaching mindset. Most everything I did in college would bore HS students or be way over their heads. Also, classroom management for littler children would be quite different, but maybe not more difficult. "No Jimmy, don't cut her hair." NO WAY would I ever teach any grade lower than 9. I'd honestly rather work at a gas station. Sometimes I don't even like teaching 9th graders, but most of this is because the counselor throws them in my class when they really don't want to be in there.
I have a friend who has taught almost every level and she said she found middle school to be the best mix of grading, fun activities, and classroom management... All were right in the middle somewhere.
Other teachers in my building do have more struggles than me because of IEPs, difficult students, low performing students. Most all of my students have As or Bs. Those that do not usually drop at semester. That being said, I still have 4 different preps and have to come up with activities to teach things, but in a different language. Most students who just want to take 2yr of a language will generally just take Spanish. I really have a select bunch, and most are ready to learn.
There are very few teachers in my building with as many preps as I have. Some of the freshmen teachers only have one prep. That being said, their job is probably just as difficult, if not more than mine because of state standards and other bureaucratic nonsense. At least I have some freedom in my classroom.
My students like my class and like me as a person, but I decided about a month ago that this job really isn't for me permanently. It really is a calling and now that the newness has worn off, I'm done. I'd like to get back into college teaching (but tenure track positions are hard to find and I don't want a PhD), or get back into information technology (which will most likely be what I'll do).
I still hold to my opinion that PE teachers have one of the easiest jobs in my building. Very little classroom management as the kids are doing something active and don't have much time to get into trouble. And very little grading as most everything they do is physical. Plus they get to wear shorts, a t-shirt, and sneakers every day.
I still hold to my opinion that PE teachers have one of the easiest jobs in my building. Very little classroom management as the kids are doing something active and don't have much time to get into trouble. And very little grading as most everything they do is physical. Plus they get to wear shorts, a t-shirt, and sneakers every day.
You are seriously misinformed if you think PE teachers have an easy time. First of all the classes are often much larger than regular classes. If you think kids don't make trouble in PE if the teacher is not on them, you don't know much about kids. Also, PE teachers teach health which requires grades and includes sex ed.
You are seriously misinformed if you think PE teachers have an easy time. First of all the classes are often much larger than regular classes. If you think kids don't make trouble in PE if the teacher is not on them, you don't know much about kids. Also, PE teachers teach health which requires grades and includes sex ed.
Not in my building. We have health teachers who only teach health.
Our PE teachers are some of the laziest teachers. I made the mistake of joining their collaboration group last semester and even though our conversations were supposed to be about formative assessments, the majority of the conversations revolved around sports. Another one lets her homeroom class do whatever they want, disrupting my class in the process.
One of the PE teachers from the high school I attended was convicted of indecent liberties with a minor. A year later, another one was convicted of providing alcohol to a student, and also having a relationship with a student.
I guess I don't have high opinions of PE teachers.
Not in my building. We have health teachers who only teach health.
Our PE teachers are some of the laziest teachers. I made the mistake of joining their collaboration group last semester and even though our conversations were supposed to be about formative assessments, the majority of the conversations revolved around sports. Another one lets her homeroom class do whatever they want, disrupting my class in the process.
One of the PE teachers from the high school I attended was convicted of indecent liberties with a minor. A year later, another one was convicted of providing alcohol to a student, and also having a relationship with a student.
I guess I don't have high opinions of PE teachers.
That sounds unique to your district. PE teachers have huge classes. Unlike you, they teach all students, including special ed students with all kinds of issues, including physical issues. They have to be aware of the limitations of certain gross motor skills. While I have never taught PT, I do know what it is like to try to manage a group of 50 or more students in a group by oneself. PT teachers also have to maintain the equipment.
Teaching very young children requires a lot of time-consuming preparation. Teachers of young children spend much more money on out of pocket supplies, including art supplies, food for activities, office supplies, etc. than high school teachers. They must make and create their own flannel board pieces and stories, activity/planning boards for centers, buy hundreds of story books, etc. You also need to be in good physical shape as you are constantly bending to get to their level, as well as helping with zipping, tying shoes, etc. I've done long-term subbing for foreign language and I found that to be one of the easier assignments. Foreign language teachers generally do not get the students with the most behavioral issues or significant special ed. challenges, such as nonverbal or limited verbal students, whereas, the PT teacher would definitely have to teach this population. The "default" language these days seems to be Spanish, so French and Italian teachers tend to get more motivated college-bound students. HS P/T teachers also have to deal with all grade levels within the school, as well as changing bodies.
It isn't so much that you offended me, as it is that I get aggravated when teachers join in the "_______ teachers have it so easy" blah, blah. It is the same problem all teachers encounter with the public in general, unless you have tried to do it yourself, all you see is the surface and have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. Like I said, being a middle school teacher is one of the few jobs in education where everyone else doesn't automatically think you have an easier job than them; anyone who dealt with a kid that age for any extended amount of time understands exactly what makes your job difficult. The most common reaction when anyone finds out you teach middle school is something along the lines of "God bless you, I would never want to do that," including most of their parents and other teachers. People might think you are masochistic, and therefore must have issues, but at least they don't envy your job or claim they would happily do it in a minute if they were given the chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson
Plus they get to wear shorts, a t-shirt, and sneakers every day.
Yeah, okay, I have to agree with you on that one.
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