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Old 11-09-2007, 09:55 AM
 
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I get angry every time I hear about teachers being fired when schools full of poor and minority students not doing well in standardized tests. I put very little blame on the teachers. I put most of the blame on the students who just do not care to learn and their parents who are just not very interested in education.

Having spent time as a teacher myself in the past I am just shocked at many of the students. I could use every innovative technique known to education but nothing would work. The students have no interest in learning and lack of manners, discipline or self respect.

Why is everyone blaming the schools for societies issues?

 
Old 11-09-2007, 10:40 AM
 
2,482 posts, read 8,730,791 times
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Because while you may have tried to be innovative, not every teacher out there is that into her job. A school is an institution and even the simplest institutions take management. You can't pass everything off to the teachers OR the parents ...after all, the teachers are there to teach. If everything is put on the parents' back, then what are we paying the teachers for?

Imho, cooperations from both sides make the best schools.
 
Old 11-09-2007, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Who knows
2,355 posts, read 2,181,956 times
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The teachers are there to teach the students but I do agree that if the child doesn't want to learn or given the encouragement at home to learn, then you cannot blame the teacher because at least they are trying. Classes are so big these days that the teacher cannot spend a lot of one-on-one time with each student.

I grew up in a house where my mom did not encourage me as much to do my homework or whatever because she had my brother and sister to encourage (both weren't great students). I, however, was interested in most of my subjects and therefore, did not need her inspiration.
 
Old 11-09-2007, 11:03 AM
 
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The kid has to have a solid foundation at home in order for the teacher to build upon it. If the kid doesn't have parents who value education and learning then they are not going to do well in school.
 
Old 11-09-2007, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,401 posts, read 28,714,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean98125 View Post
The kid has to have a solid foundation at home in order for the teacher to build upon it. If the kid doesn't have parents who value education and learning then they are not going to do well in school.
WOW!!! If that doesn't hit the nail on the head!!
I am not a teacher nor do I work in a school.

A teacher has a child for maybe 7 hours a day for 9 months out of the year when you factor in vacations, even less at the middle or high school level considering the kids have a few teachers a day at that level, yet they take the brunt of the blame....

The foundation for a child's life begins at HOME it's the parent's responsibility to make sure they grow up with an education & some morals....teachers can only enhance that when they are lucky enough to have a student with that background.
 
Old 11-09-2007, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Utah
5,118 posts, read 16,592,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean98125 View Post
The kid has to have a solid foundation at home in order for the teacher to build upon it. If the kid doesn't have parents who value education and learning then they are not going to do well in school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
The foundation for a child's life begins at HOME it's the parent's responsibility to make sure they grow up with an education & some morals....teachers can only enhance that when they are lucky enough to have a student with that background.
Very well put!
 
Old 11-09-2007, 01:44 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodtype View Post
Why is everyone blaming the schools for societies issues?
Schools aren't being blamed for society's issues, but a lot of people are blaming schools for failing to adequately educate our country's children.

A major indicator of schools as the problem is the fact that U.S. students' performance on international comparisons declines the longer they are in school. Our 4th graders are average, internationally, but our high school students are at or near the bottom.

A lot of people interpret this as parents sending their kids to school adequately prepared to learn, but the schools are dropping the ball on adequately educating them beyond the early elementary years.

There are several books about the decline in our public schools and what some of the causes are.

Here's just a few:

The War Against Excellence: The Rising Tide of Mediocrity
("Yecke is a former U.S. Department of Education Commissioner for Minnesota. Her volume is the latest in a stream of books by a multitude of authors in recent years exposing unpleasant truths about government schools.
This stream is fighting a broader current. School districts and employee unions invest mightily in public relations to keep parents, taxpayers and politicians convinced that "public education" is doing wonderfully, but just needs more money. "The War Against Excellence" pulls back the curtain to reveal that over the last 20 years or so, middle schools — usually sixth grade to eighth grade — have been infested with an alarmingly anti-academic mindset.")
The War Against Excellence [Michigan Education Report]

Angry Parents, Failing Schools
("Synopsis: Something's happening in our nation's schools. Test scores are down. Some students can't read, write, or do math. Angry parents are forming activist groups. Administrators are stonewalling. How did we get in this mess?")
Amazon.com: Angry Parents, Failing Schools: Books: Elaine K. Mcewan

Class Warfare: Besieged Schools, Bewildered Parents, Betrayed Kids and the Attack on Excellence
("...offers a first-hand account of the Great American Education War being waged from coast to coast, including the reading wars, math wars, testing wars, and other schoolyard scuffles reported almost daily by the nation’s media. Martin Rochester takes the reader on a field trip that begins with his own upper-middle class suburban school district in St. Louis and then moves on to inner-city locales and some of the best private schools, in showing how “pack pedagogy” has steamrolled parent resistance in promoting disasters such as whole-language, fuzzy math, multiple intelligences theory, teacher-as-coach, the therapeutic classroom, and all the other latest fads found in today’s schools.
A college professor, Rochester became deeply involved in public education as a result of his children’s misadventures in the classroom. After several years of trying to improve the status quo as a dogged volunteer, he graduated from involved parent to informed critic of a system in which “progressive” educators continue to assault the techniques of traditional schooling (ability-grouping, grades, homework, etc), allow nonacademic diversions to crowd out academic study, and subordinate a commitment to excellence to an obsession with “equity.” As a result of his experiences, Rochester concludes that all children are being victimized, not only the most gifted, but especially “average” students and those lower achieving kids whose needs are now supposedly driving the entire curriculum.
Martin Rochester began as a concerned parent and wound up creating a fever chart of what is wrong in our nation’s classrooms.")
Amazon.com: Class Warfare: Besieged Schools, Bewildered Parents, Betrayed Kids and the Attack on Excellence: Books: J. Martin Rochester

Ed School Follies: The Miseducation of America's Teachers
("In seeking reasons for the dismal state of contemporary education in the United States, Kramer focuses on teacher training. During the 1988-89 school year, she visited 14 schools of education in New York, Tennessee, Michigan, Southern California, Washington, and Texas, observing classes and interviewing students and professors. In this account, she concludes that most students are idealistic and eager, but are being misguided. She found students woefully ignorant of subject matter, while sometimes lacking in communication skills. Kramer maintains that new students are forced to abandon the instruction of information and knowledge in favor of theories in developing pupil self-esteem, indiscriminate passing, and reforming society. This will certainly be a controversial book. It presents a critical viewpoint and should be required reading for all school administrators, professors of education, prospective teachers, and concerned parents.")
Amazon.com: Ed School Follies: The Miseducation of America's Teachers: Books: Rita Kramer

Parents who are actively involved and paying attention to what is going on in their children's education are becoming increasingly fed up with the status quo.

'Helicopter parents' or not, they're quickly reaching the tipping point. More parents than ever do not want their children forced to be the dumbed-down, captive recipients of what started out to be well-meaning social engineering but with the advent of the global economy (The World is Flat, anyone?) has turned into a lower standard of living threat as we continue to stand by and watch other countries do a much better job of educating their students.
 
Old 11-09-2007, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,888,756 times
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I agree the foundation for education starts at home.

Kids have to grow up in a home where education is taken seriously and valued, otherwise everything else is useless. It won't matter how much you spend per student, class size, testing all the time.

But the system itself is an abysmal failure IMO. There's something seriously wrong when you're in school from kindergarten to college, and you leave and can't even support yourself (or you're in 5 figures of debt).
 
Old 11-09-2007, 05:17 PM
 
Location: In the sticks of Illinois
498 posts, read 1,519,520 times
Reputation: 164
I have an opinion about the cost of sports being in the way of ALL OUR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION. It is ridiculous!! The parents with students not in sports are paying. It is their tax money too. They need to come together and get these funds put back into the EDUCATION that big educaters keep screaming "We need more money for EDUCATION". Sports WILL survive outside of the EDUCATION. I think sports can also be good to learn by but not in a classroom. I count at least 5 teachers in our High School who are also coaches. One of them is the Sports Director, Coach and Teacher, IN THAT ORDER> Thank you for listening. SPORTS MOM
 
Old 11-09-2007, 05:23 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,384,526 times
Reputation: 55562
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodtype View Post
I get angry every time I hear about teachers being fired when schools full of poor and minority students not doing well in standardized tests. I put very little blame on the teachers. I put most of the blame on the students who just do not care to learn and their parents who are just not very interested in education.

Having spent time as a teacher myself in the past I am just shocked at many of the students. I could use every innovative technique known to education but nothing would work. The students have no interest in learning and lack of manners, discipline or self respect.

Why is everyone blaming the schools for societies issues?
teachers are great. the system stinks.
a whole lot of "students" are gang bangers. in an attempt to please everyone we have pleased no one.
greenspan did a great talk at commonwealth club of san francisco which is taped and avialable for the public on the voucher system.
we need change.
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