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Old 12-07-2016, 04:12 AM
 
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Of all the subjects, it's math that seems to be the most challenging to the students.

If so, why? Why do so many regard math as a "dry" subject or so hard? Do you somehow make it easier or more interesting for your students?

EdX
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
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I teach in an elementary school. Although I don't teach math, what I have seen in the classrooms of my colleagues would not be described as "dry". Their Math Workshop activities are fun and engaging. Students work collaboratively to solve problems. A good example can be seen in this video: Http://www.mathsolutions.com/nl48/math-workshop.html
One thing I think is particularly great is that the students are not afraid to be "wrong" and are comfortable sharing their thought processes even if they didn't arrive at the "correct" answer. One can see this when students participate in a Number Talks activity. classroom videos /number talks / There have been two examples this year where Number Talks has unexpectedly worked its way into my Language Arts/Social Studies instruction.

I haven't surveyed the students, but I would guess that many would say math is their favorite subject. In my class we are currently working on writing to inform. One third grader has chosen to write her piece about multiplication. She is drafting sections with topics such as vocabulary and strategies. It's really neat to see.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:16 PM
 
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I'm not sure the issue is only in mathematics, it's just more prevalent in mathematics. The bigger issue is we aren't getting the brightest people to become teachers. Teaching is a career for a B-student who wants a lifestyle that won't interfere with their dream to have a family and time to spend with them.

The result of this is a surplus of elementary licensed teachers who come from a liberal arts background. These are the people responsible for teaching mathematics K-6 to students. Several of these teachers took positions in middle school math classrooms because they couldn't find a position at an elementary school to their liking.

Not only does the instruction of most students stink but the district adds to the challenges by increasing class sizes every year and pulling away supply funding. There's also a movement for special education students to be pushed into general education classrooms with little support.

Teachers are having to spend more and more time writing lesson plans for administration, making sure they're doing little things that have no effect on student achievement but help their evaluation, and are overworked. This causes most of them to balance their time by neglecting curriculum, choosing instead to do things like Khan Academy, IXL, or teach straight out of the textbook doing the examples already done for them. This is the least engaging way of teaching mathematics.

Add to this the fact that students have no consequences for not knowing the material, they're simply placed in the next grade until they get to high school. This leads to freshman Algebra 1 classes where half the students think -8 + 12 = -20. Then you have high school teachers who are the least engaging of the bunch, predominantly teaching out of the textbook chapter-by-chapter, in non-stop frustration at the performance level of their students.

It's a completely broken system that's all the result of lowering the standards for educators. Fix it by having math be taught by someone with a secondary mathematics credential. I've seen great success at elementary schools that have a math specialist who does the math instruction instead of the grade level teacher. Unfortunately, this and almost all other solutions require additional funding and the local schools aren't bad enough for people to want to pony up.
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Old 12-27-2016, 05:59 PM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,425,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by education explorer View Post
Of all the subjects, it's math that seems to be the most challenging to the students.

If so, why? Why do so many regard math as a "dry" subject or so hard? Do you somehow make it easier or more interesting for your students?

EdX
Just from my 24 years of experience, I have noticed that many of my 4th graders don't have a strong sense of numbers. They haven't memorized their basic math facts, and if I were to ask them to tell me the value of the digit seven in 789,890, many of my students would not know what I am talking about or not be able to tell me the value of seven, let alone what a digit is.

I have to literally start with symbols we call digits for the 10 numbers that we use in our base 10 system. I literally start there to reteach, review or teach students who don't know what a digit is, and then build upon that until they understand place value, expanded form, etc in order to know the value of the seven and how to actually read numbers up to the hundred millions place.

Many of my students WON'T memorize their basic facts or times tables. It's sad that in order for my students to multiply, add and subtract, they either are counting on their fingers or using a multiplication table.
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:10 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,212 posts, read 107,931,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Just from my 24 years of experience, I have noticed that many of my 4th graders don't have a strong sense of numbers. They haven't memorized their basic math facts, and if I were to ask them to tell me the value of the digit seven in 789,890, many of my students would not know what I am talking about or not be able to tell me the value of seven, let alone what a digit is.

I have to literally start with symbols we call digits for the 10 numbers that we use in our base 10 system. I literally start there to reteach, review or teach students who don't know what a digit is, and then build upon that until they understand place value, expanded form, etc in order to know the value of the seven and how to actually read numbers up to the hundred millions place.

Many of my students WON'T memorize their basic facts or times tables. It's sad that in order for my students to multiply, add and subtract, they either are counting on their fingers or using a multiplication table.
Since when did 4th-graders become expected to be able to read a big number like that? I didn't have working with numbers like that until 6th grade. And I struggled with it; the teacher didn't really teach us the nuts-and-bolts of how to read a number with that many places.
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Mid South Central TX
3,216 posts, read 8,557,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Since when did 4th-graders become expected to be able to read a big number like that? I didn't have working with numbers like that until 6th grade. And I struggled with it; the teacher didn't really teach us the nuts-and-bolts of how to read a number with that many places.
In Texas, 4th graders need to read, write and compare to 1,000,000,000. Place value is taught beginning in Kinder (obviously not with numbers that large), and is built upon each year.

from the Texas Math Standard (TEKS)
(2) Number and operations. The student applies mathematical process standards to represent, compare, and order whole numbers and decimals and understand relationships related to place value. The student is expected to:

(A) interpret the value of each place-value position as 10 times the position to the right and as one-tenth of the value of the place to its left;

(B) represent the value of the digit in whole numbers through 1,000,000,000 and decimals to the hundredths using expanded notation and numerals;

(C) compare and order whole numbers to 1,000,000,000 and represent comparisons using the symbols >, <, or =;

(D) round whole numbers to a given place value through the hundred thousands place;

(E) represent decimals, including tenths and hundredths, using concrete and visual models and money;

(F) compare and order decimals using concrete and visual models to the hundredths;

(G) relate decimals to fractions that name tenths and hundredths; and

(H) determine the corresponding decimal to the tenths or hundredths place of a specified point on a number line.
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,322,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Since when did 4th-graders become expected to be able to read a big number like that? I didn't have working with numbers like that until 6th grade. And I struggled with it; the teacher didn't really teach us the nuts-and-bolts of how to read a number with that many places.
I teach fourth grade. That number is not that large. Antredd mentioned identifying the value of the digit in the hundred thousands place, not actually reading the number, but they should be able to read numbers into the hundred thousands.
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,322,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Just from my 24 years of experience, I have noticed that many of my 4th graders don't have a strong sense of numbers. They haven't memorized their basic math facts, and if I were to ask them to tell me the value of the digit seven in 789,890, many of my students would not know what I am talking about or not be able to tell me the value of seven, let alone what a digit is.

I have to literally start with symbols we call digits for the 10 numbers that we use in our base 10 system. I literally start there to reteach, review or teach students who don't know what a digit is, and then build upon that until they understand place value, expanded form, etc in order to know the value of the seven and how to actually read numbers up to the hundred millions place.

Many of my students WON'T memorize their basic facts or times tables. It's sad that in order for my students to multiply, add and subtract, they either are counting on their fingers or using a multiplication table.
That's quite a step back. We don't have to go back and review to that degree.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,546,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by education explorer View Post
Of all the subjects, it's math that seems to be the most challenging to the students.

If so, why? Why do so many regard math as a "dry" subject or so hard? Do you somehow make it easier or more interesting for your students?

EdX


I would think math would be one of the easier subjects to teach in elementary school with all the manipulatives and activities you can use with lower level concepts. Math should not be dry in elementary school. IMO what they need to do in elementary school is stay on topic longer to ensure that students have mastered one concept before moving on to the next. Instead we build in review after review after review and talk about spiraling back to topics so students can get it next time. What we teach our kids in the process is that it's not important to learn it the first time and that they should expect to get a review if they ever need it again so it's not important to remember it either.


We spend more time on math than other countries do that out score us but they spend LESS time on review because they expect their students to learn it the first time and to remember it and use it again if it's ever needed. We FAIL to hold our students accountable for learning and they know it. Our kids don't remember the math they are taught because they've been taught they don't need to. They don't learn it the first time because they've been taught that that is not expected of them. The message they end up hearing is "Math is hard, we don't expect you to get it the first time and we'll review it again if you ever need it because we don't expect you to remember it either.". Hence math education sucks in the USA.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:09 PM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,425,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Since when did 4th-graders become expected to be able to read a big number like that? I didn't have working with numbers like that until 6th grade. And I struggled with it; the teacher didn't really teach us the nuts-and-bolts of how to read a number with that many places.
I have been teaching the 4th grade for 15 years, and it has always been part of my math curriculum. Now when you factor in common core, it's very interesting in what 4th graders have to know before they learn the how to solve long division which are repeated subtraction, partial quotient, and rectangular model using the distributive property.
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