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Yep, as I have never been west of Houston. It couldn't possibly be that I have as much experience with the state as you do, but simply have a different perspective.
Let's not.
Texas is not like Mississippi,Alabama,Georgia etc.....Texas is more like it's own country east texas does alot of slang talk.North Texas Dallas and etc speak proper and the people in Houston speak ghetto fabulous in a good way.West Texas speak very proper as well and alot of people think that television shows is what is about with horse and cows but I seen that around Chicago and alot of other cities so really to narrow it down Texas is not really the south accent state but is really the main south because Texas sit lower then any other state.Thats why I don't understand why Atlanta think that they are the true south?????????? k:
Texas is not like Mississippi,Alabama,Georgia etc.....Texas is more like it's own country east texas does alot of slang talk.North Texas Dallas and etc speak proper and the people in Houston speak ghetto fabulous in a good way.West Texas speak very proper as well and alot of people think that television shows is what is about with horse and cows but I seen that around Chicago and alot of other cities so really to narrow it down Texas is not really the south accent state but is really the main south because Texas sit lower then any other state.Thats why I don't understand why Atlanta think that they are the true south?????????? k:
I hear your opinion a lot too.
When people say they are from Texas and their southern I will attempt to correct them, I'll say, "There's the south, and then there's Texas. It's a whole different entity unique on its own."
In my experience, eastern and south eastern Texas are about as southern as Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama. I can't speak for the rest of the state, because I don't know many people beyond east Texas where the largest cities are at.
You noticed a lot of southern accents in San Antonio natives? That's interesting. Seems less prevalent to me, perhaps, because I'm Hispanic and live in the city center...maybe, I don't know. Again, I do hear more southern accents in rural areas. San Antonio's culture is hugely influenced by its Tejano history. Of course there are some southern influences, but it really pales in comparison to Tejano/Hispanic influence.
San Antonio is so predominately influenced by Hispanic culture that no, I didn't "notice" any accents except for Hispanic accents in the city proper. But Austin, the Hill Country, down around the Frio River - yes, southern accents abound in those areas.
San Antonio is just one part of the Central Texas area. Most of Central Texas has a southern vibe to it to me - of course, mixed with our wonderful Texas and Tejano flavors.
That's one thing I really love about Texas in general - the delicious mixture of cultures!
There will be people who will insist to their deathbed that Texas is not Southern, but it requires ignoring a whole lot of the state in order to believe this. But they'll do it nonetheless. Mostly they are from the far western parts of the state and think that small part defines the entire 2,268,000+ square miles and 26,000,000+ people who live here.
It's not just "far, far East Texas" that is southern culturally - it's the entire eastern half of the state that has a significantly southern culture or at the very least a lot of southern cultural influence. I've lived in central Texas as well as east Texas, and I regularly go to the DFW and Austin and San Antonio areas (as well as Houston of course) and southern culture or influence, and of course beautiful southern accents, are everywhere I look.
Except that I was born and bred and grew up in East Texas and still own part of the family farm and have family there, have lived in North Texas (DFW area) and have family that still live there and have lived there all their lives, currently live in Central Texas for the past 40 years or so, and have family and lifelong friends from South and West Texas, and my husband was born and bred and grew up in San Antonio and my son lives there now. And my experience over the past 64 years as a Texas native is far different from yours. I'd be hard pressed to find a Southern accent outside of far East Texas (unless it's someone who moved here from South Carolina, say, and hasn't lost it - it's rare enough that it jumps out at me when I hear it, and I thoroughly enjoy it when I do, but it's not at all a common experience). Now, there are certain pronunciations that are common in East Texas that can be traced back through the South to certain counties in England (this I learned through my study of genealogy) - "idn't" for "isn't" is one of them - but they are rare outside of East Texas. (My Daddy had a strong East Texas - not Southern - accent but he corrected my pronunciation by the dictionary so I ended up with a Webster's accent, though I can fall into a Texas accent - oddly enough, more West than East - in certain situations.)
Except that I was born and bred and grew up in East Texas and still own part of the family farm and have family there, have lived in North Texas (DFW area) and have family that still live there and have lived there all their lives, currently live in Central Texas for the past 40 years or so, and have family and lifelong friends from South and West Texas, and my husband was born and bred and grew up in San Antonio and my son lives there now. And my experience over the past 64 years as a Texas native is far different from yours. I'd be hard pressed to find a Southern accent outside of far East Texas (unless it's someone who moved here from South Carolina, say, and hasn't lost it - it's rare enough that it jumps out at me when I hear it, and I thoroughly enjoy it when I do, but it's not at all a common experience). Now, there are certain pronunciations that are common in East Texas that can be traced back through the South to certain counties in England (this I learned through my study of genealogy) - "idn't" for "isn't" is one of them - but they are rare outside of East Texas. (My Daddy had a strong East Texas - not Southern - accent but he corrected my pronunciation by the dictionary so I ended up with a Webster's accent, though I can fall into a Texas accent - oddly enough, more West than East - in certain situations.)
But I'm not talking about accents only - the OP asks about accents AND culture (I take that to mean cultural influences and idiosyncrasies).
I agree that your experiences as a native Texan living IN Texas for the vast majority of your life give you a different perspective from mine. I have lived in the Deep South for the majority of my life and am intimately familiar with Southern culture. I think that's why I am able to identify the subtle hints and not so subtle influences that others not as familiar with that culture often don't recognize.
I've also lived in east Texas now for over twenty years. My husband is a Texas native and has lived and worked all over this state for most of his life. I also lived in Central Texas for three years, and my daughter lived in north Texas for over three years as well (up near the OK border). My son lives in Austin and has for five years. My brother lived in Houston for about ten years. I have family and one of my best friends in Fort Worth and go there repeatedly throughout the year. I have driven and visited and toured all over this state (except for the Panhandle - only been through it a time or two) since I was a little girl. No - my family isn't FROM here and I wasn't born here, but I consider myself pretty darn familiar with most of the state, except for the southern border and the Panhandle.
Yes, you've got me "beat" when it comes to "time and grade" in Texas, but I have you "beat" when it comes to familiarity with southern culture.
I generally have this spirited debate with people who are NOT from the Deep South and are usually from West or Central or South Texas (East Texans easily relate to and generally appreciate the nuances of southern life that are so apparent in their culture). Often other Texans simply aren't as familiar with the South and therefore they assume that the culture they're experiencing is far removed from the South - when someone from the South can easily see the connections and similarities.
And of course the differences as well - I LOVE the differences, the uniquely Texan flavor and attitude of this state and wouldn't want to see it changed one iota. But that doesn't mean I am blind to all the hints (and in some cases obvious similarities) to Southern culture and where our history overlaps.
I was recently south of San Antonio along the Frio River and noticed an ABUNDANCE of southern accents down there. Now - I am sure they think they have strictly a "Texas" accent but I can easily pick up the southern influences, even in West Texas accents for that matter.
You've got your perspective and I've got mine, but I think your statement that "southern culture is limited to far East Texas" (I think that's pretty close to your original quote - didn't look it up) is not particularly accurate.
But I'm not talking about accents only - the OP asks about accents AND culture (I take that to mean cultural influences and idiosyncrasies).
I agree that your experiences as a native Texan living IN Texas for the vast majority of your life give you a different perspective from mine. I have lived in the Deep South for the majority of my life and am intimately familiar with Southern culture. I think that's why I am able to identify the subtle hints and not so subtle influences that others not as familiar with that culture often don't recognize.
I've also lived in east Texas now for over twenty years. My husband is a Texas native and has lived and worked all over this state for most of his life. I also lived in Central Texas for three years, and my daughter lived in north Texas for over three years as well (up near the OK border). My son lives in Austin and has for five years. My brother lived in Houston for about ten years. I have family and one of my best friends in Fort Worth and go there repeatedly throughout the year. I have driven and visited and toured all over this state (except for the Panhandle - only been through it a time or two) since I was a little girl. No - my family isn't FROM here and I wasn't born here, but I consider myself pretty darn familiar with most of the state, except for the southern border and the Panhandle.
Yes, you've got me "beat" when it comes to "time and grade" in Texas, but I have you "beat" when it comes to familiarity with southern culture.
I generally have this spirited debate with people who are NOT from the Deep South and are usually from West or Central or South Texas (East Texans easily relate to and generally appreciate the nuances of southern life that are so apparent in their culture). Often other Texans simply aren't as familiar with the South and therefore they assume that the culture they're experiencing is far removed from the South - when someone from the South can easily see the connections and similarities.
And of course the differences as well - I LOVE the differences, the uniquely Texan flavor and attitude of this state and wouldn't want to see it changed one iota. But that doesn't mean I am blind to all the hints (and in some cases obvious similarities) to Southern culture and where our history overlaps.
I was recently south of San Antonio along the Frio River and noticed an ABUNDANCE of southern accents down there. Now - I am sure they think they have strictly a "Texas" accent but I can easily pick up the southern influences, even in West Texas accents for that matter.
You've got your perspective and I've got mine, but I think your statement that "southern culture is limited to far East Texas" (I think that's pretty close to your original quote - didn't look it up) is not particularly accurate.
Great post! Thank you for your generous contributions to this thread, they have been very insightful to me, since I have actually never traveled to Texas, but am very familiar with Mississippi and Alabama.
What states of the Deep South are you familiar with and how would you say they compare and contrast with Texas? Mainly East Texas since that is the most "southern" part of the state.
The Texas panhandle seems like a somewhat desolate place, similar to west Texas, looking on a map it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot in those areas besides a few medium sized cities that are extremely isolated.
The Texas panhandle seems like a somewhat desolate place, similar to west Texas, looking on a map it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot in those areas besides a few medium sized cities that are extremely isolated.
Desolate and isolated, while not inaccurate, are relative terms in today's shrinking world of high-speed travel and internet. Those of us who are natives of the "wild west" parts of the state find plenty of beauty in the "desolation." Some of us tend to become claustrophobic when finding ourselves embedded in places where you can't see the forest for the trees, or cooped up in gridlocked traffic.
Great post! Thank you for your generous contributions to this thread, they have been very insightful to me, since I have actually never traveled to Texas, but am very familiar with Mississippi and Alabama.
What states of the Deep South are you familiar with and how would you say they compare and contrast with Texas? Mainly East Texas since that is the most "southern" part of the state.
The Texas panhandle seems like a somewhat desolate place, similar to west Texas, looking on a map it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot in those areas besides a few medium sized cities that are extremely isolated.
Thanks for the encouragement - it's good to see that a fellow southerner at least can grasp my perspective!
Before I answer your questions, let me give an analogy I just thought of that can help shed some light on what I was saying in the post you quoted.
Say that I'm not all that familiar with French culture or history, but I am a New Orleans Saints fan living in, say, Portland Oregon, and therefore I love to decorate with fleur de lis - which to me represents a football team. Since I'm not all that familiar with France, I associate the fleur de lis with the Saints football team basically. For all I know, they made it up and it's their unique symbol - and to me that's all it represents - the New Orleans Saints. My frame of reference is limited so I have no idea where that symbol comes from or what it means outside of the football team. When I see a fleur de lis, it reminds me of one thing - a football team.
Now - someone from New Orleans or France would have a totally different perspective. They would see the French influence and the history of the symbol. When they see a fleur de lis, they don't automatically think of a football team. They think of history, of home, of a whole culture. The tie in to the New Orleans Saints football team is secondary, if they think of it at all.
Southerners who move to Texas see things in the culture, in the accents, etc that they recognize as a mixture of both Texan and Southern - where a Native Texan who isn't that familiar with southern culture, or as is the case sometimes actually DISLIKES southern culture, may either totally miss the tie in, or they may emotionally deny the tie in. That doesn't mean it's not there. That doesn't mean that the culture that THEY identify as strictly Texan doesn't have deeper influences from further south - it just means they don't or won't recognize those influences.
To answer your questions:
I've lived in Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. Each state has it's own unique flavor, but each of those states is also definitely "southern." (I've also lived in Maryland, Ohio and California, and Japan and Germany, and they are definitely NOT southern - though Maryland has some southern influences that are pretty obvious - but my point is that I know southern when I see it and I know when it's missing!).
The way they compare to Texas from my perspective is this:
1. Accents -though each accent is of course different (including Texas accents), the distinctive drawl and slower cadence of southern accents is obvious to me in most Texas accents (excluding Tejano accents). Even the more clipped, slightly faster paced accents of some Texans are still more "drawlish" and slower than accents from other regions.
2. Food - Of course, Texas has it's claim to fame - TEX MEX - as well as some German influences, some French (along the Gulf Coast and into East Texas), unique BBQ styles, etc. but that wonderful "down home southern cooking" is easy to find in most areas of this state. You will find lots of similarities in cooking styles when it comes to "country food." (You're also in for a big treat when it comes to uniquely Texan food!) One thing that you may have a hard time finding the further west you go is a good bowl of grits though.
3. Agrarian lifestyles - yes, Texas has more emphasis on livestock and ranches vs crops than southern states do, but the similarity is that "one with the earth" mentality. "Country living" with a Texas twist is very common throughout the state, in spite of the wonderful Texas metros (each with their own unique vibe - I love our big Texas cities!). Work clothes, pick up trucks, work boots and dirt under the fingernails, hard work and pride in being able to "fix anything," work with tools and farm equipment, etc is very common throughout Texas, as it is throughout the South.
4. Pride in big cities and their cosmopolitan influence on a state that has lots of rural area - Texas is like southern states in this regard as well. The southern states are largely rural, filled with little bitty country towns with dusty, sleepy town squares - and you will find very similar towns throughout Texas, complete with the old courthouse. But a very important part of each southern state's identity is pulled from the unique culture of it's metro areas - where art, technology, medical infrastructure, history, food, etc is embraced as something cherished by most people in the state - they usually pull some sense of their own identity from that metro area if that makes sense. Maybe the same could be said for any state, but it really resonates with me as a familiar feeling when I think about Atlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, even Birmingham and Charleston. Those cities really set the tone for their states' residents and most residents are extremely proud of and affectionate toward their big metro areas. Texans are the same - and boy do Texans have some bragging rights when it comes to their metro areas!
Hope this helps you understand Texas better - these are just my personal observations and of course they are influenced by my own personal life history but I think you will be able to relate to what I'm saying when you get here.
Oh - warning - you will see the similarities, but one thing I think you will also be struck by is how DIFFERENT Texas is from, well, any other place you've ever been. Now - East Texas will feel the most familiar to you of course - in culture, terrain, food, accents, etc - but even East Texas is TEXAS - definitely NOT Mississippi or Alabama! It's a culture shock in a way -at least it was for me. I think I was expecting the laid back attitude and very slow and casual friendliness of the south that I was so familiar with (outside the metro areas of the south) when I moved here - and I did not find that here. Yes, people are friendly. Yes, they are helpful (if you're not a slacker). Yes, they will smile freely and talk with you in the check out line just like "back home." But Texas is very work oriented and very independent minded in general. This is an attitude that sets it apart from it's southern neighbors - Texas bills itself as a very business friendly state and that's not just rhetoric. Texans are very hard working and they expect you to pull your own weight. They will speak their mind more freely than many southerners will, and they don't sugar coat anything. I know those are HUGE generalities and I don't want to start a big argument about those because I know there are exceptions, but I think you can grasp what I'm talking about. There's very little "Sugah, sweetie...bless your heart.." in Texas and a lot more "Git er done!" and "Pull yore self up by yore bootstraps." Hope that makes sense.
Growing up in East Texas, as a little girl I actually was entranced with Southern culture (never lived there, spent a lot of time studying it and its history and visiting whenever the parents would do so - we traveled a lot on vacations but sometimes we went west or north rather than east). I wanted desperately for Texas to be Southern so that I could claim to be part of that culture. I have ancestors that fought at San Jacinto, and an ancestor who attended the Texas secession convention, so had a foot in both camps. But I grew up and traveled more of Texas and learned more about TEXAS history and realized that it was only one tiny part that had anything, really, to do with the South and that my wishes were just that, wishes. Even the "iron fist in the velvet glove" of the Southern woman has a different expression here. More of an iron fist in a deerskin glove, if you will - better for barrel racing, for one thing!
I think your perspective on some of the differences between the South and Texas are right on, though there is also a touch of "Manana" to balance things out. But we do tend to work hard AND play hard.
Desolate and isolated, while not inaccurate, are relative terms in today's shrinking world of high-speed travel and internet. Those of us who are natives of the "wild west" parts of the state find plenty of beauty in the "desolation." Some of us tend to become claustrophobic when finding ourselves embedded in places where you can't see the forest for the trees, or cooped up in gridlocked traffic.
I meant no offense in calling it desolate and isolated! I understand it is a desirable quality for some people to be removed from large urban and teeming areas. Much of the western states are sparsely populated and their cities rather isolated when compared with the eastern states. That is the only line I was drawing.
Texas is so vast that eastern Texas is more like the eastern states, more densely populated with larger cities where west Texas might as well be one of the plains/desert states with its low density and smaller cities.
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