What areas of Texas are "southern" in culture and accent? (Houston: transplants, assess)

[Darkknight01]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Darkknight? I apologize for my brusque reply earlier. I stand by that I definitely oppose lots of things that stemmed from the Civil Rights of 1964 as per federal courts and all...but I was wrong in the tone I used to state it, and the way it may have came across.

Thanks, i appreciate that.

[Yn0hTnA]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy205

Really? I don't live there, but from my visit, Houston isn't half as southern as Atlanta. It's more than half.

No, he's quite on the mark; Houston is, at best, only half as Southern as Atlanta.

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

In my opinion, you can see the primary influence in the naming of the towns and major streets as you move across the state. Houston (Pearland & Sugarland are named after the primary crops right?) has very little of the German & Czek influence and are much more southern. Dallas and Ft Worth are more generic Texan (named after forts and railroad stops and founded much later), but as you move through the Hill Country, steets and towns get that 'crazy spelling thing' going on. San Antonio (founded much earlier) I would call a cross-roads between Hispanic and German. South and west Texas gets even more hispanic and much less southern.

Actually, Germans and Czeks played a significant role in shaping the history of the Houston/Galveston area; the metro is actually part of the German Texan belt, since it was the area the Germans went through when arriving in the state.

Westheimer, the name of a major street in Houston, is a German name.

Originally Posted by Nairobi

Exactly. I mean, come on; two of Houston's original nicknames are "The Magnolia City" and "The Bayou City". If that doesn't scream Southern, I don't know what does. Even Atlanta doesn't have the quintessentially Deep South landscape of magnolias, bayous, Spanish moss, cotton fields, bald cypress, etc. Truth be told, that city has always been more characteristically Upland South, despite its large black population and having been a cotton transport hub. I'm not saying this makes Houston more southern, but one can hardly make a solid argument that Atlanta is much more so.

Doesn't mean a thing; you can find magnolias, bayous, Spanish moss, alligators, etc, in South Texas as well, especially in areas like Corpus Christi, Rockport, and Brownsville

[SouthernBoy205]

Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA

No, he's quite on the mark; Houston is, at best, only half as Southern as Atlanta.



Actually, Germans and Czeks played a significant role in shaping the history of the Houston/Galveston area; the metro is actually part of the German Texan belt, since it was the area the Germans went through when arriving in the state.

Westheimer, the name of a major street in Houston, is a German name.



Doesn't mean a thing; you can find magnolias, bayous, Spanish moss, alligators, etc, in South Texas as well, especially in areas like Corpus Christi, Rockport, and Brownsville

I disagree!

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy205

I disagree!

If you know what you're talking about then no one can tell you otherwise.

[soletaire]

Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA

No, he's quite on the mark; Houston is, at best, only half as Southern as Atlanta.



Actually, Germans and Czeks played a significant role in shaping the history of the Houston/Galveston area; the metro is actually part of the German Texan belt, since it was the area the Germans went through when arriving in the state.

Westheimer, the name of a major street in Houston, is a German name.



Doesn't mean a thing; you can find magnolias, bayous, Spanish moss, alligators, etc, in South Texas as well, especially in areas like Corpus Christi, Rockport, and Brownsville

I disagree as well...I would put houston at at least 75% as southern as Atlanta...its not peidmont south but its a firmly southern pseudo gulf coastal type of southern

[TexasReb]

=soletaire;34437587]I disagree as well...I would put houston at at least 75% as southern as Atlanta...its not peidmont south but its a firmly southern pseudo gulf coastal type of southern

On a related tangent, Soletaire (good to see you, by the way! , one of the things I wanted to bring up earlier was that the German and French influence on Texas really (of course, IMHO only), has little counter-influence on the state's primary identity as being essentially Southern.

I mean, why should those of European decent be considered somehow a separate and isolated enclave from the rest of the state in terms of the issue at hand? As it was? Most of the original German Texans actually supported the Confederacy (I didn't know this until recently), and while there are definitely certain communities/towns where their descendants still keep alive some of the old country traditions and all, it doesn't translate into that they did not/do not/ consider themselves Southerners and didn't generally assimilate...like the French-Canadians (Cajuns) in Louisiana.

Speaking of, while yes, the French flag was one of the renowned "Six Flags over Texas", it was only for a very brief time, and I don't know of any really sizeable French descended communities and areas, although there may be some in far southeast Texas. But I could be wrong on that one...(does anyone know...?).

And Native-American? Yes, like most states as settlement moved west, there was that presence, but other than removal (which has a certain shameful history in some ways as is failure to live up to treaty agreements), it never made much more than good Hollywood westerns on Texas history. There are no real "Indian reservations" in the state of any note. And most of those in our neighbor state of Oklahoma were from the southeastern United States originally, and allied with the South during the WBTS.

About the only truly influential minority segment in Texas that could fairly be considered a bit at odds with "traditional" Southern history and culture is the Mexican...but even there, it differs quite a bit from that of the interior SW states. And Tex-Mex food (love that as well!), is sorta a thing of its own, and combines Mexican/Southern/Texan.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring that up. The notion (as at least one earlier poster keeps positing), that to state the simple mathematical fact that it was very much that southeastern white/black settlement duality and numbers, that made the largest impact is somehow "disparaging" to "other cultures" is, in many ways, actually disparaging to them! They can definitely be Southern and consider themselves so, as well.

[jonsereed]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Speaking of, while yes, the French flag was one of the renowned "Six Flags over Texas", it was only for a very brief time, and I don't know of any really sizeable French descended communities and areas, although there may be some in far southeast Texas. But I could be wrong on that one...(does anyone know...?).

The only true french sounding town name in that area is Beaumont, others such as Mauriceville, Orange etc. work in both language so who knows ?

My guess is the french/cajuns settlers there melted into the majority anglo crowd a long time ago. Some may have change their names to blend in while others with family names such as Martin, Bernard, Lambert etc. didnt need to.

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

On a related tangent, Soletaire (good to see you, by the way! , one of the things I wanted to bring up earlier was that the German and French influence on Texas really (of course, IMHO only), has little counter-influence on the state's primary identity as being essentially Southern.

I mean, why should those of European decent be considered somehow a separate and isolated enclave from the rest of the state in terms of the issue at hand? As it was? Most of the original German Texans actually supported the Confederacy (I didn't know this until recently), and while there are definitely certain communities/towns where their descendants still keep alive some of the old country traditions and all, it doesn't translate into that they did not/do not/ consider themselves Southerners and didn't generally assimilate...like the French-Canadians (Cajuns) in Louisiana.

Speaking of, while yes, the French flag was one of the renowned "Six Flags over Texas", it was only for a very brief time, and I don't know of any really sizeable French descended communities and areas, although there may be some in far southeast Texas. But I could be wrong on that one...(does anyone know...?).

And Native-American? Yes, like most states as settlement moved west, there was that presence, but other than removal (which has a certain shameful history in some ways as is failure to live up to treaty agreements), it never made much more than good Hollywood westerns on Texas history. There are no real "Indian reservations" in the state of any note. And most of those in our neighbor state of Oklahoma were from the southeastern United States originally, and allied with the South during the WBTS.

About the only truly influential minority segment in Texas that could fairly be considered a bit at odds with "traditional" Southern history and culture is the Mexican...but even there, it differs quite a bit from that of the interior SW states. And Tex-Mex food (love that as well!), is sorta a thing of its own, and combines Mexican/Southern/Texan.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring that up. The notion (as at least one earlier poster keeps positing), that to state the simple mathematical fact that it was very much that southeastern white/black settlement duality and numbers, that made the largest impact is somehow "disparaging" to "other cultures" is, in many ways, actually disparaging to them! They can definitely be Southern and consider themselves so, as well.

The idea that German and Czech settlements in Texas are traditionally "southern" is one area that I feel differentiates Texas from traditional scotch irish settlements in the deep south. East Texas seems palpably different that central Texas in this and many other regards. You tend to look at the commonalities rather than the nuanced differences in expressing your viewpoint. However, I have learned not to argue with your "self identification" evidence. That being said, I would not consider Fredricksburg to be "traditionally" southern while you probably would.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

The idea that German and Czech settlements in Texas are traditionally "southern" is one area that I feel differentiates Texas from traditional scotch irish settlements in the deep south. East Texas seems palpably different that central Texas in this and many other regards. You tend to look at the commonalities rather than the nuanced differences in expressing your viewpoint. However, I have learned not to argue with your "self identification" evidence. That being said, I would not consider Fredricksburg to be "traditionally" southern while you probably would.

Well, look at it this way: if the commonalities outnumber the differences--as they most certainly do in the case of Texas being the South & Southeast Texas being the Deep South--than why are people so insistent on making a big fuss over said differences, especially when their roles in everyday life are largely overstated?

[soletaire]

Yeah, thats kinda what I was gonna say...he's probably right to some extent, since we ALL have a bias one way or the other or else we wouldnt be here sharing an opinion...but if the differences are present, but nuanced, yet the commonalities are many, I would say that if one had to make a decision, the commonalities with the south would outweigh the differences...

I also noticed blacks from other regions outside the southeast that ive talked to, almost universally consider the state of Texas to be southern...of course there are exceptions and some of that may be due to the influence that hip hop has had in shaping part of the image associated with texas in relation to the rest of the south...