DOWNTOWN BIG"6"..What direction are they going??? (Houston: to relocate, capita)

[dallasboi]

As I expected!!!


DOWNTOWN DALLAS NOW: THE PLACE TO BE (2023)
https://youtu.be/f8G2kHrXFBA

[Romping Willy Billy]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

As I expected!!!


DOWNTOWN DALLAS NOW: THE PLACE TO BE (2023)
https://youtu.be/f8G2kHrXFBA

That was a great cartoon animation of downtown Dallas. What about the reality? I do think downtown Dallas has the most beautiful downtown in the world intimately speaking. It isn't too large and its glitter isn't too obtrusive. The way the streets offset instead of following a square grid pattern lends to this effect.
What I think damages the growth of downtown Dallas is interference by city officials always trying to divide the area up like a theme park. They are always interfering trying to pull development south when private investment is way ahead of them already. If they aren't checked in their zeal, they could actually work to kill the progress happening south of downtown, southwest in North Oak Cliff, west in Trinity Groves, and to the southeast further yon out in Dallas County.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

As I expected!!!


DOWNTOWN DALLAS NOW: THE PLACE TO BE (2023)
https://youtu.be/f8G2kHrXFBA

DOWNTOWN DALLAS NOW: LIVING & QUALITY OF LIFE (2023)

https://youtu.be/vA6P_J0BwXg

[oil capital]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

As I expected!!!


DOWNTOWN DALLAS NOW: THE PLACE TO BE (2023)
https://youtu.be/f8G2kHrXFBA

I have no idea what you mean by "As I expected". I guess you expected Dallas to be able to produce slick marketing pieces that have little connection with reality. Dallas has always been good at that. If Downtown Dallas is the place to be (for employers, which is who this piece was directed to), why do almost all relocations go to the suburbs? Why are there millions of square feet less office space occupied now than there was ten years ago (30.5% less; almost 7.5 Million Square Feet less)? My favorite was the Chase executive talking about how young people are so thrilled when they see Chase's new offices, not mentioning that it was a large downsizing from their prior offices because most of their North Texas employees now work in the suburbs.

[Romping Willy Billy]

To oil capital:

There was a big competition to win the location of the Mavericks between Arlington and downtown Dallas. Downtown won. So where did the arena get built to house the Mavericks?
In Uptown.
The Uptown area north of downtown is really an extension of downtown. Meanwhile, the old Cityplace development is the true Uptown as that is what Southland envisioned it to be when they developed it.
The city has it all screwed up. In their zeal to butt into the business of professionals, they aren't selling the areas attributes in a way that is in the best interest of the city of Dallas.
Uptown got popular and then spread back into downtown. There really hasn't been a drop in office space as Uptown is now the prime area of downtown with The Crescent being its centerpiece.
The city likes dividing up areas into theme parks. For example, the museum district has now expanded out further south beyond the limits of its legal designation.

[oil capital]

Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy

To oil capital:

There was a big competition to win the location of the Mavericks between Arlington and downtown Dallas. Downtown won. So where did the arena get built to house the Mavericks?
In Uptown.
The Uptown area north of downtown is really an extension of downtown. Meanwhile, the old Cityplace development is the true Uptown as that is what Southland envisioned it to be when they developed it.
The city has it all screwed up. In their zeal to butt into the business of professionals, they aren't selling the areas attributes in a way that is in the best interest of the city of Dallas.
Uptown got popular and then spread back into downtown. There really hasn't been a drop in office space as Uptown is now the prime area of downtown with The Crescent being its centerpiece.
The city likes dividing up areas into theme parks. For example, the museum district has now expanded out further south beyond the limits of its legal designation.

I am well aware of Uptown. And yes, there really has been a drop in office space, even when you expand the definition of Downtown to include Uptown/Turtle Creek. Here are the numbers:

Greater downtown office space occupied as of 4th Quarter 2012: 37,605,000 square feet
Greater downtown office space occupied as of 1st Quarter 2023: 29,367,361 square feet.

I have no idea what the point of the Mavericks story was, but yeah, the Perot family owned the Mavericks and were developing Victory Park. Surprise surprise, the Mavericks moved to Victory Park!! And, FWIW, Dallas does not have a Museum District, they have what they call an "Arts District", an area that really needs some reimagining.

[Romping Willy Billy]

Originally Posted by oil capital

I am well aware of Uptown. And yes, there really has been a drop in office space, even when you expand the definition of Downtown to include Uptown/Turtle Creek. Here are the numbers:

Greater downtown office space occupied as of 4th Quarter 2012: 37,605,000 square feet
Greater downtown office space occupied as of 1st Quarter 2023: 29,367,361 square feet.

I have no idea what the point of the Mavericks story was, but yeah, the Perot family owned the Mavericks and were developing Victory Park. Surprise surprise, the Mavericks moved to Victory Park!! And, FWIW, Dallas does not have a Museum District, they have what they call an "Arts District", an area that really needs some reimagining.

You are looking at a lot of juicy fried chicken and complaining about the bones.
Perot's lasting legacy is going to be the bloodbath he received developing Victory Park. You don't give credence to the incredible effort he put into redeveloping that wasteland.
Figure people will realize they need to get back to work when they realize that their competition is going to be killing them because they did get back to work. Also figure that the growth of office space in Uptown is going to match relatively speaking the lost downtown office space being converted over into residential and hotels.
Carry on.

[oil capital]

Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy

You are looking at a lot of juicy fried chicken and complaining about the bones.
Perot's lasting legacy is going to be the bloodbath he received developing Victory Park. You don't give credence to the incredible effort he put into redeveloping that wasteland.
Figure people will realize they need to get back to work when they realize that their competition is going to be killing them because they did get back to work. Also figure that the growth of office space in Uptown is going to match relatively speaking the lost downtown office space being converted over into residential and hotels.
Carry on.

ROFL. Facts are stubborn things. And they clearly show that Uptown office occupancy is not coming anywhere near to matching that being abandoned in Downtown.


And there is zero need to replace the downtown office space currently being converted into residential and hotels. The space was empty; that's whey it's being converted.

[Romping Willy Billy]

Originally Posted by oil capital

ROFL. Facts are stubborn things. And they clearly show that Uptown office occupancy is not coming anywhere near to matching that being abandoned in Downtown.


And there is zero need to replace the downtown office space currently being converted into residential and hotels. The space was empty; that's whey it's being converted.

Funny how we say the same thing, but in argument style. I will bet you my sweet grandmother's bonnet that the Uptown Dallas area - the northern district of it around The Crescent that is - is actually going to start accelerating. The reason why is because the best time to build in the most prime areas -as an investment - is during a downturn when land is cheapest and construction is lowest.
I will also try to provide you with insight you might not be aware. While Goldman Sachs is building its headquarters in that area just outside the prime bubble that surrounds the Crescent, if they decide to move their world headquarters, it would be located seperate in an office as close to the Crescent as possible. That incredible monster built by Caroline Rose Hunt eats some serious meat.
It is the epicenter of North Texas and fast becomingcthe most prime urban area in all the South.
When one can take a step down in prime walking over to Turtle Creek, that is some serious scale.

[oil capital]

Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy

Funny how we say the same thing, but in argument style. I will bet you my sweet grandmother's bonnet that the Uptown Dallas area - the northern district of it around The Crescent that is - is actually going to start accelerating. The reason why is because the best time to build in the most prime areas -as an investment - is during a downturn when land is cheapest and construction is lowest.
I will also try to provide you with insight you might not be aware. While Goldman Sachs is building its headquarters in that area just outside the prime bubble that surrounds the Crescent, if they decide to move their world headquarters, it would be located seperate in an office as close to the Crescent as possible. That incredible monster built by Caroline Rose Hunt eats some serious meat.
It is the epicenter of North Texas and fast becomingcthe most prime urban area in all the South.
When one can take a step down in prime walking over to Turtle Creek, that is some serious scale.

I’m starting to see the disconnect. I’m focused on reality; you’re focused on your hopes and dreams, and fantasies.

By the way , I am completely aware of G-S’s plans ( which are not their headquarters). Keep an eye on their site and let us know when they start construction. Oh. And speaking of less occupied office space . . . When G-S’s building is done, there will be several hundred thousand square feet more unused office space downtown.