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No. I agree with EDS that there’s nothing souless about building and maintaining something for a reason as simple as beautification.
To answer your “Dallas built a bridge on a waterway that doesn’t exist” mark. Houston just built a tunnel under a hill that doesn’t exist until it was landscaped. Is that an illusion? Does that make Houston or Memorial park an illusion?
Dallas is absolutely a foodie city. That’s not force objection. That’s what I experience from traveling and living. A Houstonian trying to force an opinion of Dallas lacking foodie amenities would be the equivilent of Dallasboi hating on the Hermes store in River Oaks.
yes I’ll agree that Dallas marketers focus on different things. No. I don’t agree that this makes Dallas a “souless” place or an “illusion”. I’ll agree (as most people do) that Houston has a more energetic and vibrant vibe than Dallas. Disagree entirely on a beautification taking out soul or not living with vibrancy. Otherwise, Tokyo wouldn’t be one of the most energetic cities on Earth.
Ugh. You missed my point. It’s ok. The example you used to try to shame Houston is the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make. What you are referencing at Memorial Park is a Land Bridge intended to reunite two sides of the park to its original prairie state. I encourage you to walk the trails of the Eastern Glades to learn of the original ecosystem in the park that is being restored. It’s the complete opposite of building something just for show. It cost $70M. The two Calatrava bridges in Dallas cost $300M.
Ugh. You missed my point. It’s ok. The example you used to try to shame Houston is the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make. What you are referencing at Memorial Park is a Land Bridge intended to reunite two sides of the park to its original prairie state. I encourage you to walk the trails of the Eastern Glades to learn of the original ecosystem in the park that is being restored. It’s the complete opposite of building something just for show. It cost $70M. The two Calatrava bridges in Dallas cost $300M.
I’m not shaming Houston. I’m shaming your comment. You claim a bridge over a body of water that doesn’t exist is a soulless illusion. Why stop short of claiming that Memorial Park’s land bridge in a hill that doesn’t exist is an illusion.
I’m fine with both projects. You’re the person shaming , not me. I don’t shame either and both projects are fine with me.
Houston does give more of an overall energetic vibe than Dallas, it has more diverse landscapes in the entire area (Piney forests to the North with rolling hills in Conroe, Prairie, and Gulf Coast).
BUT... as much as I hate to admit it, Dallas kicks our a$$es when it comes to the buildout of pedestrian areas and the cohesiveness of them. It kind of frustrates me that our leaders don't realize it when a simple start to the solution would be to have an effective way of moving people that doesn't involve just a typical dirty bus. I prefer LRT, but since Houston is hell bent on BRT, at least make a line that gives direct transit between walkable areas like Washington Ave, Rice Village, Montrose/Lower Westheimer, Midtown, downtown Main Street.
But I've been holding my breath on this for years and now I'm in the middle of my life. I just have to accept that Houston may not be this forward thinking in my lifetime.
I hate when I forget to mention something, so excuse me if I’m posting too much. I heard an urban planner for the City of Dallas describe Dallas as a rust belt city surrounded by a suburban city (city proper). He was referring to the original 40 sq mi city (built before WW2) including the remaining historical neighborhoods/old streetcar nodes and the purely car dependent/suburban designed section surrounding it. I felt that way already, but I didn’t know how to put it. There are some parts of that 40 sq mi area that have been modified but areas that haven’t, I think most people notice it. Streets are narrower generally and you see a lot more buildings to the sidewalk. Even if they’re not in the best condition at the moment.
Ok, I found it. For those that are interested in a visual representation of what I’m saying, here you go….
I also found out that Houston stopped streetcars in 1940. Dallas didn’t stop streetcar service until 1956. Dallas was the last big city in Texas to do so. That’s prolly another reason why those areas lasted. Every other big city in Texas stopped running streetcars before the end of WW2.
Jefferson Blvd and Zang Blvd in 1957 after the streetcar removal. Jefferson Tower in the distance. They say that the 50s was the peak period for this area. With Sears, JCPenney, Zales, etc making up the list of stores here.
Last edited by Dallaz; 08-13-2023 at 12:43 AM..
Reason: Late night typo
We all know both cities are nearly identical in almost any category/department we could think of. There have been tons of discussions on this matter, but there's one difference that I notice about Houston that is relatively less pronounced in Dallas, and that's "energy." It's actually kind of hard for me to come up with the exact word to describe it. We all also probably agree that the amount of pedestrian traffic in both cities are about the same.
I want to know what exactly makes Houston to have more of that energetic vibe compared to Dallas when neither of the two is particularly more dense or has visibly more foot traffic than the other? I'd love to hear your opinions!
Cities do not have vibes it’s all in your mind and experiences. No one shares those with you si vibe is what you feel and has nothing to do with reality.
They're talking about reuniting Lower Greenville back to Downtown by streetcar and extending the Dallas Streetcar at Bishop Arts onto Jefferson and Davis. Also, For years they've talked about extending the McKinney Ave Trolley in Uptown to Knox too. It makes sense since those are growing urban neighborhoods with existing density.
This is from the DART Streetcar Feasibility Study from 2022
Unfortunately, since DART redid their website, all of their studies and transit plan links do not work. They had projected ridership numbers and way more streetcar alternatives/routes - including Lower Greenville and the route to Davis St and an alternative to extend it further down Jefferson Blvd to Tyler/Polk Sts. These are the only screenshots I do have.
A portion of the Lakewood area was one of the areas in that 40 sq mi area that was modified. In the late 70s/early 80s, the city built a 6 lane stroad - the Abrams Road bypass to Columbia Ave (starting at Richmond Ave to Beacon St). The construction of that stroad, destroyed a number of historic homes and caused the original gateway feature into the neighborhood to be moved. Particularly, in the Junius Heights historic district. As of late, the city has tried to make it better with removing one lane in each direction and adding bike lanes. There's a complete streets redo planned for Columbia Ave to Main Street too. What they did save was the original streetcar node called Lakewood Shopping Center. There was some demo during the bypass construction, but much of it is still intact. The original Abram Road that went through the shopping area is now more like a circulator road called "Abrams Parkway".
Here's the streetcar alternative ending at Lakewood
BONUS
This is the original gateway feature leading into Junius Heights in the 50s. The two pylons were moved to here (Google Streetview) after the bypass/widening construction.
Here's the alternative to extend the Dallas Streetcar from Bishop Arts to Jefferson/Zang Blvds to the new Oak Cliff Deck Park. Also, the city ended up doing the same to North Oak Cliff as well when it comes to building stroads in older areas. The city built the 6 lane Jefferson-12th Street connector right through the Winnetka Heights historic district. They also made Tyler-Polk Sts one way to speed up traffic. Now, the city has reversed all of that. The city completed the conversion back to two way traffic on Polk and Tyler Sts and the city permanently closed the Jefferson-12th St Connector last year. They're planning to reunite the neighborhood with a chain of parks called Kevin Sloan Park. The city also put Jefferson Blvd on a road diet north of Polk St. It's down to 4 lanes instead of 6. They've simply restriped the lanes (the unused lane can be used for street parking), but they're looking into something more substantial in the future.
Here's the West Dallas alternative. If anyone's not familiar, they're gentrifying the hell out of West Dallas right now. My brother just moved into the area and it reminds me of what is occurring in North Oak Cliff/Bishop Arts. "The Bridge to nowhere" - Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge (Calatrava) help to kick start development. Trinity Groves - the restaurant incubator was the first new development in a series of new developments that has not stopped or slowed down.
Here's the Knox-Henderson alternative. Former streetcar node as well, this area is so popular that it is sparking urban development around it. Knox St also has a complete streets redo in the works as well. Based on what's in the planning stages, this may be the hottest area in town.
Ok, I am done now. Y'all don't have to worry about me quoting myself...I think lol
Here's the Knox-Henderson alternative. Former streetcar node as well, this area is so popular that it is sparking urban development around it. Knox St also has a complete streets redo in the works as well. Based on what's in the planning stages, this may be the hottest area in town.
Ok, I am done now. Y'all don't have to worry about me quoting myself...I think lol
So, you know what...I lied lol.
Forgot to mention that Cole and McKinney Aves have conversions back to two from Uptown to Knox-Henderson. IMO it's no coincidence that's where all the urban development is going. It's much harder to do it in other places of the city, unless it's a completely new masterplan development like Dallas Midtown AKA Dallas International District. Location and urban bones seems to be the recipe here. Because of their close proximity to Downtown, it makes for what some people call better intown neighborhoods.
But seriously, I really wanted to share these color videos of streetcars in operation in Dallas in the mid 50s.
The streetcar on Jefferson Blvd stops in front of the Sears store at the intersection of Jefferson Blvd and Llewellyn Ave at 0:30. (the blade sign is partially visible too - with last two letters in Sears shown) That's where Fiesta is today. It was demolished in the 90s and is the only major building built in a typical suburban style with a giant parking lot fronting the store. I really wish they would've built it to the sidewalk. Hopefully, that's one of the properties that's redeveloped in the future lol.
Above Jefferson Blvd in the 50s. 10 continuous blocks or 1 mile of retail, entertainment venues, and office space. You can see the streetcar at the bottom of the picture. Red dot is the old Sears store (now Fiesta) and the blue dot is the Jefferson Tower.
Shows Dallas Streetcars in the 50s until 4:55 (turns to color video at 2:32).
In my most superficial, amateur and objective observation?
Port City vs. Inland City.
Something about having a natural massive body of water near a city creates a more relaxing, laid back energy? Also a more semi-tropical climate generally seems to be more open and inviting?
Ok, I found it. For those that are interested in a visual representation of what I’m saying, here you go….
I also found out that Houston stopped streetcars in 1940. Dallas didn’t stop streetcar service until 1956. Dallas was the last big city in Texas to do so. That’s prolly another reason why those areas lasted. Every other big city in Texas stopped running streetcars before the end of WW2.
Jefferson Blvd and Zang Blvd in 1957 after the streetcar removal. Jefferson Tower in the distance. They say that the 50s was the peak period for this area. With Sears, JCPenney, Zales, etc making up the list of stores here.
Exactly. The amount of rail in Dallas today should be giving off an energetic vibe concerning tourists.
First off, it is very unusual to have two burgeoning mega cities is such close vicinity. 214 miles from downtown to downtown and even far less than that from outskirt to outskirt.
Second, the central areas of Dallas and Houston are the same size. Fort Worth is like a huge suburb regardless of how much people from Fort Worth hate hearing that. Fort Worth is becoming impressive lead in to Dallas much like Uptown Houston is now impressive lead in into downtown Houston.
Dallas has far more areas of pretty bling than Houston. This aspect should also energize the vibe.
Lastly, Houston is built more along a grid than Dallas. As a result, Houston tends to be indirectly connected to many of its popular central neighborhoods like Montrose, the Heights, and so on. In contrast, downtown Dallas connects directly to the southwest to North Oak Cliff, to the west to both Fort Worth and Trinity Groves (using two signature bridges). Towards the northwest, downtown both connects up directly with the Dallas Arts District and, along Harry Hines, connects directly up with the Dallas Market Center and the Southwestern Medical Center. Maple Avenue connects downtown Dallas directly up with Love Field. Cedar Springs connects it directly to Turtle Creek. To the northeast, McKinney connects downtown directly to City-Place and Knox Park. Ross connects downtown to Lower Greenville. Gaston heads east connecting downtown with Baylor Medical Center and, further out, with the Lakewood Shopping Center. To the southeast, Main and Commerce connect downtown with both the Deep Ellum and Fairpark neighborhoods. Finally to the south, downtown is directly connected up with the Cedars neighborhood.
Meanwhile, downtown Houston and the neighborhoods surrounding it are serviced by fewer but much wider freeways.
Gee.
One can argue that the reason Houston seems to have such an energetic vibe is because its downtown is so poorly connected.
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