Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Toronto has a bit of everything going for it but I think the most important things are its safe, secure and rather harmonious attracting people from all over.. It doesn't stir the soul with excitement like some other places in the world and it doesn't excel in any particular areas in terms of a wow factor but its certainly a place where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Really has to do something about that excessive corruption though lol....
That's very well put.
The only quibble I have with T.O. is that I believe we are at an inflection point in the history of the city where we could, if we really wanted to, start building the foundations of a city that really does 'stir the soul'. We could do it. Really.
But we should realise that doing such a thing is desirable (it is!) and to make it a priority. It'll take a little money, though....and that 'Toronto cheap' (as Royson James in the Toronto Star puts it) will rear its ugly head when figures start getting discussed.
If I could wave a magic wand, I'd get rid of the OMB, get rid of that nauseating WASP puritanical attitude that seems to frustrate every attempt to change the city for the better and to make it more fun/spontaneous and I'd elevate Jennifer Keesmaat to temporary czarina of the city for a term not exceeding 5 years. Her writ would be law..
The only quibble I have with T.O. is that I believe we are at an inflection point in the history of the city where we could, if we really wanted to, start building the foundations of a city that really does 'stir the soul'. We could do it. Really.
But we should realise that doing such a thing is desirable (it is!) and to make it a priority. It'll take a little money, though....and that 'Toronto cheap' (as Royson James in the Toronto Star puts it) will rear its ugly head when figures start getting discussed.
If I could wave a magic wand, I'd get rid of the OMB, get rid of that nauseating WASP puritanical attitude that seems to frustrate every attempt to change the city for the better and to make it more fun/spontaneous and I'd elevate Jennifer Keesmaat to temporary czarina of the city for a term not exceeding 5 years. Her writ would be law..
Completely agree.
Just look at Dundas Square and Nathan Philips Square one would realize how small minded Toronto is. A 40s building at Church/Carlton makes people angry because it is "too tall". We have a subway system that is more appropriate for a city of 1/3 the size. Our public spaces are always cheaply built and never even tries anything more ambitious and grand. Comparing High Park with the really great urban parks in global cities would be such a big joke. The list goes on. The city not only lacks ambition, but also vision.
It is a comfortable and well functioning city, don't get me wrong, but I would prefer it step outside the comfort zone that it is so used to, and really tries to put itself on the world stage.
And yes, stop being so damn cheap and boring. The disappointing result of NPS revitalization really makes me question whether the city has what it takes to be a world alpha city.
Just look at Dundas Square and Nathan Philips Square one would realize how small minded Toronto is. A 40s building at Church/Carlton makes people angry because it is "too tall". We have a subway system that is more appropriate for a city of 1/3 the size. Our public spaces are always cheaply built and never even tries anything more ambitious and grand. Comparing High Park with the really great urban parks in global cities would be such a big joke. The list goes on. The city not only lacks ambition, but also vision.
It is a comfortable and well functioning city, don't get me wrong, but I would prefer it step outside the comfort zone that it is so used to, and really tries to put itself on the world stage.
And yes, stop being so damn cheap and boring. The disappointing result of NPS revitalization really makes me question whether the city has what it takes to be a world alpha city.
I think you're kinda just rolling with it now into an abyss lower than some important things would show..
I personally think places like Yonge/Dundas Sq are more big minded than most places in the city. Like it or lump it its a place with critical mass and really I don't think there is anything like it in Canada. You also have to look at the amenities in the city everything from theatre to sports to cultural institutions - it has the whole milieu. Even the CN Tower is a big minded symbol of the city and was the perfect icon to sort of usher in the decade when the city started its rise.
We also have to look at the huge growth that has gone on in the city.. A lot of more puritanical cities would never have allowed the construction boom we've had. Although not exactly Shanghai, Dubai or NYC tall - in the Canadian/Canamerican context - heck even Euro/South American/African context T.O is a tall city.. Lets not compare our highrises to Chinese cities - Toronto isn't in a country with 1.3 billion people. This list doesn't include the CN Tower.
7 of the top ten buildings in the country are in Toronto and well into the teens in the top 20.. As a matter of fact - Toronto has more greater than 150 m buildings in the city than the rest of Canada combined with buildings to spare. Only NYC and Chicago outstrip Toronto in Canamerica for greater than 200m tall buildings and my money is on Toronto outstripping Chicago for number 2 spot in 10-15 years.
Toronto is also already an alpha world city - particularly in the economic realm.. Its GDP is also strong on the International front and competes well with cities like Sydney, Frankfurt and Milan. It almost always ranks in the top 15 or 20 lists for most connected and influential cities in the world.
Also its International Airport has just officially become a plus 40 million per year airport - that is generally regarded as reaching the big leagues as one of many examples.
Public spaces and other nuances aside lets not eagerly throw the baby out with the bath water here when there are certain important metrics where the city is doing very very well.. I think the most valid criticism against the city isn't its lack of manicured almost fake like parks (I prefer rugged ravines and trails vs some sort of manicured public park) is the rapid transit system. If there is a city that is begging for it - I think its the populace of Toronto and the GTA. Its the absolute best way we could spend our money as opposed to a euro style public space - I don't think it really works for Toronto anyway.
The only quibble I have with T.O. is that I believe we are at an inflection point in the history of the city where we could, if we really wanted to, start building the foundations of a city that really does 'stir the soul'. We could do it. Really.
But we should realise that doing such a thing is desirable (it is!) and to make it a priority. It'll take a little money, though....and that 'Toronto cheap' (as Royson James in the Toronto Star puts it) will rear its ugly head when figures start getting discussed.
If I could wave a magic wand, I'd get rid of the OMB, get rid of that nauseating WASP puritanical attitude that seems to frustrate every attempt to change the city for the better and to make it more fun/spontaneous and I'd elevate Jennifer Keesmaat to temporary czarina of the city for a term not exceeding 5 years. Her writ would be law..
Totally agree with this post.. I mentioned to Botti that in some important areas we are definitely an Alpha world city and I don't think we have to wholesale dismiss the things that make the city prominent. On the other hand we certainly do have some small town elements - I don't think its just a Toronto thing - I think its a Canadian thing. If Toronto was in another country it would be even more influential than it is.
Interesting you say the Wasp puritanical attitude - the biggest area I think we've thrown that out are economically and growth/dev wise. Toronto has one of the highest levels of per capita immigration in the world.. On the other hand you are right - even a small civil project is so hard to get through... If its a condo no problem though lol... I think we need some visionary and inspirational leadership... So you think that's Keesmat ah.. Care to elaborate why? As I said to you before, Tory is really disappointing me and is a snoozefest lol..
fusion, well said. I'm not ignoring Toronto's achievement. Just venting some frustration.
I know you want the city to become something better than what it is so that is not a bad thing at all.. We may not agree with all the details to make it better but I think we both want the same thing and I have my frustrations also at the lack of progress in areas.
TInteresting you say the Wasp puritanical attitude - the biggest area I think we've thrown that out are economically and growth/dev wise. Toronto has one of the highest levels of per capita immigration in the world.. On the other hand you are right - even a small civil project is so hard to get through... If its a condo no problem though lol... I think we need some visionary and inspirational leadership... So you think that's Keesmat ah.. Care to elaborate why? As I said to you before, Tory is really disappointing me and is a snoozefest lol..
The people that are attracted to municipal politics in Toronto are either career bureaucrats or people who have been stuck in the same stage of their lives career wise and have an inability to think outside their comfortable bubble. You dont tend to get the most interesting ideas from these folks. I compare them to the people who are attracted to running for congress in the US, typically lawyers who are great at reading policy but not much else (No offense to lawyers, I am married to one afterall)
I know its tough to attract talent from the private sector, when there are start ups to establish and run or corporate jobs that pay much more generously than your typical government salary. But there are examples of people who have left and really want to make a civic contribution despite the cut in pay. Those are the people we need to attract, not only in Toronto but everywhere. Then you will see some out of the box thinking that may shake things up and make people a bit uncomfortable (In a good way) in the process.
The people that are attracted to municipal politics in Toronto are either career bureaucrats or people who have been stuck in the same stage of their lives career wise and have an inability to think outside their comfortable bubble. You dont tend to get the most interesting ideas from these folks. I compare them to the people who are attracted to running for congress in the US, typically lawyers who are great at reading policy but not much else (No offense to lawyers, I am married to one afterall)
I know its tough to attract talent from the private sector, when there are start ups to establish and run or corporate jobs that pay much more generously than your typical government salary. But there are examples of people who have left and really want to make a civic contribution despite the cut in pay. Those are the people we need to attract, not only in Toronto but everywhere. Then you will see some out of the box thinking that may shake things up and make people a bit uncomfortable (In a good way) in the process.
Yeah I know its just Tory talked a big game - now he's pretty damned quiet... He's had his honeymoon period now its time to become MAYOR of Toronto...
Yeah I know its just Tory talked a big game - now he's pretty damned quiet... He's had his honeymoon period now its time to become MAYOR of Toronto...
I fear he may have set people up for quite a bit of disappointment, the man is hardly some outside the box thinking visionary. At least hes not Rob Ford, that may be good enough for the time being.
I fear he may have set people up for quite a bit of disappointment, the man is hardly some outside the box thinking visionary. At least hes not Rob Ford, that may be good enough for the time being.
Well in the run up to the election he was the best in show. Chow initially was my favoured candidate but to be real- she had a lacklustre campaign and performed weaker than I think most would have anticipated or expected. The best performing candidate won - the question is will the best performing candidate become a worthy Mayor. So far I would say he has not risen to the challenge. Sure he's no Rob Ford but that bar was so damned low to begin with. I just think we need someone with a high bar and not just well better than Ford or ho hum Mayor... I dunno - maybe I expect more from a Mayor but man its an awesome gig to be Mayor of Toronto - especially at this time in its history and you sit in the chair for what at most a decade. Make the damned best of it and make a difference in the short time you have.
There are those in history who didn't make a big splash before their time in office but once in man did they make up for it and more.. Seize the moment I say!
Last edited by fusion2; 12-14-2015 at 10:59 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
