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When a show is based so far away from reality that jump the shark moment is harder to spot.
I don't think Rick has lost his humanity. I think he has given up trying to decide if he is supposed to be good or bad. He wanted to be the good guy. He tried to be the bad guy and agonized over it. He tried to be comatose for a while and not deal with it. Now I think he has staked his claim on his 'family' and will protect them and attempt to survive without the need to define himself as humane or inhumane. He killed the cop who escaped because it was in their best interest for him to do so. He did not need to keep the remnants in the hospital because without Dawn they were no longer a threat. He knew that to shoot more would only result in more deaths of his people.
Beth also had some growth over this season. She learned that she was tougher than she thought, and that it was not worth living in captivity. Live free or die! There was an element of foreshadowing when she sat at the edge of the elevator shaft. We are reminded that she tried suicide once before. We know the cavalry is on the way but she doesn't. I'm not surprised she knew that Dawn had to die. All she had to do was say the word to Daryl or Rick and they would have taken care of it for her. But she was ready to fight her own demons on her own terms regardless of the consequences. I think she knew that it would be fatal for her. I was not expecting that and wailed like a banshee! I was still waiting for Carol to jump out of her chair and start KICKING BUTT!
There were lots of things to like about this season. They didn't get trapped in a long arc like at the farm or with the Gov, so I think they were experimenting with some different formats. Some of it worked, some of it didn't, but I can't wait to see what is going to happen now the whole band is back together.
I don'[t think that any of the others from the hospital will join them....when Rick said step forward, no one moved. Why choose the devil you don't know over the devil they know? Without Dawn they have some hope that the status quo in the hospital will change (Even though I seriously doubt it would...I think they will devolve into anarchy.)
The one thing that annoyed me about last night's episode (which I otherwise loved) was how that idiot Gabriel sneaked out of the heavily-fortified church, then came running back with a mob of walkers trailing after him, and then Michonne and Carl actually chopped open the bar on the doors to let him in. I'd be saying "get back in the way you got out, or you're not getting in." They were perfectly safe in the church with the windows boarded up, the door barred and the outside fortifications. Walkers never even would have noticed they were in there. But in minutes, Gabriel screwed that up, but Michonne and Carl let him. He'd be more valuable as walker food.
Then when they did let him in the doors, why didn't they then shut the doors really quickly? No, they left them wide open so all the walkers could just pour in. That made no sense.
It's when the writers do stuff like this that the viewers get ticked off. We know these characters, and we know how they are likely to handle various situations. Leaving those doors wide open just didn't make any sense, and it didn't fit with the characters as we know them. Sometimes I feel like they hire a brand new writer for an episode who never watched the show, but maybe read a Wikipedia summary of the series. (Kind of like having Maggie not say a single thing about Beth being missing and leaving with Abe's group before learning of Beth's fate).
Well, it was refreshing to see Maggie remember who Beth was and show some emotion about her. She'd better not dare go on some kind of grief bender now, since she didn't even have the courtesy to care about looking for Beth when she was alive, or wondering if she was even alive or dead. And she did rebound pretty nicely from her Dad's brutal beheading.
I couldn't help but laugh when she found out about Beth and started crying. The writers know they made a boo boo by not having her give a damn about Beth since last season. Maggie bursting into tears was certainly a natural reaction, but the timing definitely made it a bit comical. It's like "Oh, now you finally give a crap, really?"
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Originally Posted by TracySam
I'm not so clear on why there was so much talk about Daryl being devastated by last night's loss. Sure, he and Beth spent a few days together surviving after the prison fell apart. But he was nowhere near as close to her as he was to others like Carol. Daryl (and I) would be much more devastated if Carol had been the one to die.
I don't think we know yet if anyone from the hospital will decide to go with Rick's group. I would think some of the "wards" would rather go with them than continue to be slaves. Maybe even the doctor will go. I think that'll be something we find out in the next part of the season.
I didn't like that Beth killed Dawn. She didn't seem to be that crazy. I guess the show needed a dramatic finish before going off the air for a couple of months.
I'm not sure why Dawn needed Noah to be there so badly. And I also don't know why Beth would feel compelled to kill her. I mean, I guess she was slapping Beth around for a while there, but I don't see any reason Beth would be compelled to go on a suicide mission and stab her.
They wanted Noah back but barely even started to negotiate and then someone just shoots Beth? I didn't like that.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I didn't like that Beth killed Dawn.
No, what happened was Beth stabbed Dawn with the medical scissors she hid in her cast. Dawn responded by shooting her. It was such a pointless way for Beth to die, because those little scissors wouldn't do much damage and it looked like Dawn was wearing a vest at the time. Plus, Dawn must be a fast draw because it was an instant shot almost and no one had guns drawn at the time. Daryl killed Dawn.
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I'm not sure why Dawn needed Noah to be there so badly.
She didn't. It was just a power play on her part to let everybody know she was the Queen B. Changing the deal and screwing with everybody's head was just her MO for being 'The Boss.'
That was all in one episode, because they had a couple days of surviving together which I guess brings a necessary amount of "closeness" (adding in a little alcohol and tiny bit of revelations about their pasts in a kind-of "truth or dare" type conversation). It was nothing like the deep intimacy he and Carol have with each other.
I was glad it wasn't Carol. She is one of my favorites. But it did seem gratuitous. Like they needed to kill off one of the characters because it was a "finale." I really couldn't see any good reason they needed to kill her. They wanted Noah back but barely even started to negotiate and then someone just shoots Beth? I didn't like that.
I will have to go back and rewatch this one some time. I wasn't really into it last night and was doing something else at the same time. I did notice the fake baby LOL! I hope they do something with this Morgan storyline soon. It is getting old having a sneak peek at the end of every episode...
I agree with Tourian about "jumping the shark." I would consider that to be something so out there and ridiculous that I wouldn't even want to watch the show anymore. I don't think TWD is there. I have lost interest compared to earlier seasons, and sometimes it just seems to drag. But I will tune in again when it comes back on. I just think they need to move the plot along faster.
They did not just shoot Beth. The head cop shot her because Beth had just stabbed her in the neck with a pair of surgical scissors. What was weird is how fast she drew her weapon after getting stabbed.
I was glad it wasn't Carol. She is one of my favorites. But it did seem gratuitous. Like they needed to kill off one of the characters because it was a "finale." I really couldn't see any good reason they needed to kill her. They wanted Noah back but barely even started to negotiate and then someone just shoots Beth? I didn't like that.
Well, Beth did stab her with a pair of scissors.. I'd probably shoot someone who stabbed me as well. So.. From that standpoint, it did make sense.. but just barely. Like I said before.. This wasn't a "Tasha Yar" death, but.. It tiptoed the line.
I totally agree with you that they thought they needed to kill someone.
Who was the last main character killed by walkers? You have to go back to T-Dog, don't you? A case could be made for Bob Stookey.. But.. I more chalk his death up to the Termites.
Like I said before.. This wasn't a "Tasha Yar" death, but.. It tiptoed the line.
Chuckling at your Tasha Yar reference. I was just referring to Eugene as a "Lt. Barkley type"--bumbling, awkward, and bound to get into trouble, while having some surprising intelligence at times. Always surprised at the closet TNG fans who get those references when I drop them.
Last time I read this thread people here were whining Beth story is boring, well, were you the same people who got sad when she died coz that doesn't make any sense.
My husband was upset she died. I told him. "I told you! One of them is gonna die!!"
I have always been team Beth, except when she sings, then biting her was always warranted in such a moment, otherwise, she was and always will be someone I would have been good friends with in such a situation. I imagine many of my friends probably say the same about me and my sing songy moments. I liked the Beth character a lot.
I've given up trying to guess who is going to die, I'm never happy when it happens so, I try not to think too much about it anymore. We all knew it was coming and knew it would be dramatic, but, in that moment when it happened, I was totally caught off guard how they took Beth out. I do believe a simple expletive escaped my lips such as F_ _ K
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Originally Posted by TracySam
The one thing that annoyed me about last night's episode (which I otherwise loved) was how that idiot Gabriel sneaked out of the heavily-fortified church, then came running back with a mob of walkers trailing after him, and then Michonne and Carl actually chopped open the bar on the doors to let him in. I'd be saying "get back in the way you got out, or you're not getting in." They were perfectly safe in the church with the windows boarded up, the door barred and the outside fortifications. Walkers never even would have noticed they were in there. But in minutes, Gabriel screwed that up, but Michonne and Carl let him. He'd be more valuable as walker food.
Then when they did let him in the doors, why didn't they then shut the doors really quickly? No, they left them wide open so all the walkers could just pour in. That made no sense.
It's when the writers do stuff like this that the viewers get ticked off. We know these characters, and we know how they are likely to handle various situations. Leaving those doors wide open just didn't make any sense, and it didn't fit with the characters as we know them. Sometimes I feel like they hire a brand new writer for an episode who never watched the show, but maybe read a Wikipedia summary of the series. (Kind of like having Maggie not say a single thing about Beth being missing and leaving with Abe's group before learning of Beth's fate).
Couldn't agree more with it all.,
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Originally Posted by Tourian
No, what happened was Beth stabbed Dawn with the medical scissors she hid in her cast. Dawn responded by shooting her. It was such a pointless way for Beth to die, because those little scissors wouldn't do much damage and it looked like Dawn was wearing a vest at the time. Plus, Dawn must be a fast draw because it was an instant shot almost and no one had guns drawn at the time. Daryl killed Dawn.
She didn't. It was just a power play on her part to let everybody know she was the Queen B. Changing the deal and screwing with everybody's head was just her MO for being 'The Boss.'
Exactomundo!
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I really couldn't see any good reason they needed to kill her. They wanted Noah back but barely even started to negotiate and then someone just shoots Beth? I didn't like that.
Couldn't agree more with it all., 
