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Very true about the English in the USA. You rarely ever see English pride on display. Most Americans in the past would use the term WASPS to indicate the ruling elites of English ancestry. There was a great bit of dialogue between Matt Damon's character Edward Wilson and Joe Pesce's Palmi in "The Good Shepard" which says it all:
Joseph Palmi: We Italians, we got our families and we got the church. The Irish, they have the homeland. The Jews, their traditions. Even the ******s, they got their music. What about you people Mr. Carlson, what do you have?
Edward: The United States of America, the rest of you are just visiting.
Thinking about it, being my husband and myself are both British and living in the states...if we had kids born over here we would probably expect them to say they are American. Then also mention they are half british if it was a deep conversation, but not put a name on it like British American. Maybe Bimbam is right, but even today in the UK non native people don't label themselves like the Americans do...so that's why I probably wouldn't expect my kids too. I have kids british born that moved over here 12 years ago at aged 4 and 6....I wonder if they will call themselves British - American, when they become american citizens?..maybe considering they would be truly both, but I wouldn't expect their children to carry it on..unless they went for a british passport- but America doesn't recognize dual citizenship if you are born in the states if I remember.
Thinking about it, being my husband and myself are both British and living in the states...if we had kids born over here we would probably expect them to say they are American. Then also mention they are half british if it was a deep conversation, but not put a name on it like British American. Maybe Bimbam is right, but even today in the UK non native people don't label themselves like the Americans do...so that's why I probably wouldn't expect my kids too. I have kids british born that moved over here 12 years ago at aged 4 and 6....I wonder if they will call themselves British - American, when they become american citizens?..maybe considering they would be truly both, but I wouldn't expect their children to carry it on..unless they went for a british passport- but America doesn't recognize dual citizenship if you are born in the states if I remember.
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.
However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are
required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to
enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its
passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.
Also...and I don't know the validity of this one; I think it may depend on the country of origin (and their laws on dual/citizenship of the naturalized U.S. citizen.
The US won't allow citizens of other countries to become US citizens and still retain their former citizenship. So (for instance) Rupert Murdoch the 'Fox' magnate had to give up his Australian citizenship to become a US citizen.
BUT, if you are born eligible for multiple citizenships, that's a different thing. I was born in the USA with an Australian mother and a New Zealand father. I have US citizenship (including a US passport), as well as Australian and NZ citizenship.
The US won't allow citizens of other countries to become US citizens and still retain their former citizenship. So (for instance) Rupert Murdoch the 'Fox' magnate had to give up his Australian citizenship to become a US citizen.
BUT, if you are born eligible for multiple citizenships, that's a different thing. I was born in the USA with an Australian mother and a New Zealand father. I have US citizenship (including a US passport), as well as Australian and NZ citizenship.
I have kids british born that moved over here 12 years ago at aged 4 and 6....I wonder if they will call themselves British - American, when they become american citizens?
The whole Hyphenated-American thing is fairly recent.
Many people absolutely hate this trend, because they think it divides people. Other people like it as a way of bringing together their original heritage with their American identity.
However it seems that the more recent the migration of a particular group has been, or the more alienated they are, the more likely you will see the hyphen. We have African-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, and Native-Americans.
We don't have English-Americans, Welsh-Americans, Scottish-Americans, Irish-Americans, German-Americans. Well, we have them, but they are not referred to that way. Someone once suggested the term "European-Americans", but that never caught on.
No one will ever refer to your children as "British-Americans" because the British arrived here first (after the Native-Americans). British heritage Americans are sort of the default "Americans". Even the silly description of "all-American looks" refers to people with European backgrounds.
In the US and Australia, for instance, most people of English ancestry are quick to 'forget' their ancestry, whereas other groups, be they Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, Indian - seem to retain a consciousness of being that ethnicity, even if they are culturally in no way German or Irish or anything. Heck it seems even people with some Scottish or Welsh ancestry will tell people about it but a lot of people with English ancestry will say I'm 'just Australian' or 'American' or something. Heck I've met people born in England who come here at a young age who are like that. I guess it's because the UK was the colonising power and English is the 'default' in these countries. Also English is a global language so English people seem to have less of a need to identify themselves.
Until somewhat recently, I was really only aware of my Irish and German ancestry and was actually a little surprised to learn that my earliest European ancestors in North America arrived to the British colonies from England in 1689. I was later pleased to learn that their descendants fought alongside pro-independence revolutionaries a century later, which for me, as an American, left me feeling even more detached from my English ancestral background than I otherwise perhaps would have.
But let me make something clear: I have never been particularly fond of my ancestry on the basis of the national/cultural origins of my ancestors. I am not Irish, English, Scottish, German or French--I'm an American who has been detached from these ancestors and their distinct cultures by time and unfamiliarity (and, I guess, warfare). I make a conscious effort to never refer to myself as being Irish, German or whatever, and I wish that more Americans would do the same. Why, in the 21st century, Americans are so prone to expressing kinship with the countries their ancestors abandoned is mind-boggling for me.
The sharing of the English language, at least from my own American point-of-view, is not something I view as indefinitely binding Americans or the U.S. with the rest of the Ango-Saxon world, and, like many of our other superficial similiarities, I find it to be a quite marginal commonality in the big picture (I imagine that many other non-American English speakers could agree; after all, it's we bottom-rung Americans who "destroy" the ever-superior English language).
But let me make something clear: I have never been particularly fond of my ancestry on the basis of the national/cultural origins of my ancestors. I am not Irish, English, Scottish, German or French--I'm an American who has been detached from these ancestors and their distinct cultures by time and unfamiliarity (and, I guess, warfare). I make a conscious effort to never refer to myself as being Irish, German or whatever, and I wish that more Americans would do the same. Why, in the 21st century, Americans are so prone to expressing kinship with the countries their ancestors abandoned is mind-boggling for me.
Yes, America and the United Kingdom went their separate ways ... and evolved differently.
But you underestimate the influence your U.K. heritage has on you and your family. Every family has a family culture and a lot of it is influenced by original nationality. There are distinct differences in the outlooks of different nationalities and some of that survives assimilation.
If there were not differences, recent arrivals would not talk about navigating a culture clash between the expectations of their original culture and the American culture. Eventually, everyone assimilates into the American way, but no group gives up their identity entirely. This can be seen in parenting styles, married life, social life, attitudes toward education and work, etc ...
One of the biggest indicators of my family's U.K. heritage is the lack of extravagant displays of emotion. We've been here forever, but this still persists. Try that in an Italian family and see how far that gets you.
In the US and Australia, for instance, most people of English ancestry are quick to 'forget' their ancestry, whereas other groups, be they Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, Indian - seem to retain a consciousness of being that ethnicity, even if they are culturally in no way German or Irish or anything. Heck it seems even people with some Scottish or Welsh ancestry will tell people about it but a lot of people with English ancestry will say I'm 'just Australian' or 'American' or something. Heck I've met people born in England who come here at a young age who are like that. I guess it's because the UK was the colonising power and English is the 'default' in these countries. Also English is a global language so English people seem to have less of a need to identify themselves.
Too many people hate the English, in fact, English is not recognised as an ethnicity on much UK documentation, if any. So it seems that even the UK government wants to wipe out this ethnic/ancestral group. Quite often you are accused of being a racist if you admit to being English.
Yes, America and the United Kingdom went their separate ways ... and evolved differently.
But you underestimate the influence your U.K. heritage has on you and your family. Every family has a family culture and a lot of it is influenced by original nationality. There are distinct differences in the outlooks of different nationalities and some of that survives assimilation.
If there were not differences, recent arrivals would not talk about navigating a culture clash between the expectations of their original culture and the American culture. Eventually, everyone assimilates into the American way, but no group gives up their identity entirely. This can be seen in parenting styles, married life, social life, attitudes toward education and work, etc ...
One of the biggest indicators of my family's U.K. heritage is the lack of extravagant displays of emotion. We've been here forever, but this still persists. Try that in an Italian family and see how far that gets you.
I politely disagree that I underestimate the extent to which English (or, more broadly, British) ancestry influences me and/or my family, because it's simply inevitable that centuries of political, cultural and geographic detachment from a place and society have an impact on the evolution of the surrogate society (which was the North American British colonies). My post-colonial "English" ancestors began moving westward into new cultural territory almost immediately after American independence, and that (westward migration), I'm sure, has a lot to do with why British cultural influence became less prevalent in the U.S. as a whole (though I imagine it probably still exists to some extent in the New England and Atlantic regions).
The fact that foreign expats in the U.S. notice cultural divides is, I think, a very good thing. An independent United States was not intended to be a mere extension of Britain (this isn't Canada), and the fact that immigrants from many other ethnic, cultural and national backgrounds ended up in the U.S. helped in separating us from the so-called "mother country"(I hate it when people describe the U.S. as being some sort of "child" of the British).
And I truly don't notice anything specifically English/British about my family or myself (unless, of course, we're talking about ethnic appearance); in fact, there has always been much more emphasis on our Irish and German ancestral origins (even though there's nothing particularly Irish or German about us in a cultural sense). Likewise, extravagant displays of emotion and extroversion aren't generally common in my family, but why should I assume that to be something distinctly and objectively English/British?
All things considered, I'm an American--ancestral national origins are not a source of pride for me, and, frankly, I find that to be quite healthy.
English people are Germanic.. like Irish and germans. So theoretically they all are the same.
The speak a Germanic language but are not at large ethnically Germanic, and neither are the Irish.
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Quite so...
