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What Americans don't seem to understand is that most Scottish, Welsh, and Irish people are still pi$$ed at England, even if it's only an emotional undercurrent. Nobody likes a bully, and for centuries England was a bully, and any of you who've seen Braveheart knows why. The English were ruthless for centuries, and Celts have long memories.
Of course, this doesn't mean that all English people are bullies, or bad, or in any other way inferior to Celts, but there's still that cultural distrust that all Celts are born into and raised with. I know I sure was -- even if it didn't really 'take.'
I must admit that it bothers me though when people call me 'British.' I am not British; I'm Scots - period. To me, it's rather like people from the States being called Canadian. I'm guessing that most U.S. citizens have nothing against Canadians in principle, but they wouldn't like to be hailed as one if they come from south of the border.
What Americans don't seem to understand is that most Scottish, Welsh, and Irish people are still pi$$ed at England, even if it's only an emotional undercurrent. Nobody likes a bully, and for centuries England was a bully, and any of you who've seen Braveheart knows why. The English were ruthless for centuries, and Celts have long memories.
Of course, this doesn't mean that all English people are bullies, or bad, or in any other way inferior to Celts, but there's still that cultural distrust that all Celts are born into and raised with. I know I sure was -- even if it didn't really 'take.'
I must admit that it bothers me though when people call me 'British.' I am not British; I'm Scots - period. To me, it's rather like people from the States being called Canadian. I'm guessing that most U.S. citizens have nothing against Canadians in principle, but they wouldn't like to be hailed as one if they come from south of the border.
Just my thoughts.
Mahrie.
Anyone who knows their history knows this is true and why its true. Wales, Scotland and Ireland all are Celtic nations, they still retain the original population that existed in the British Ilse prior to the Roman invasion. (Wales much more influenced by the Roman presence) England is completely different, it is a Germanic based culture that rose up from the invasions of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Vikings also left a deep impression upon England. This is basic history we all should know, and it explains why there is a difference between Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Im shocked anyone would dispute these facts. You are also correct about England and its history of dominating its neighbors and the effects it has had on its relations with the Celtic people of Britain. Again these are verifiable facts. We all watched the independence referendum news last year in Scotland, it is the very resentment you described that made that referendum possible. The Northern Ireland mess of the twentieth century is rooted in the tortured history between England and Ireland. The massive population of Irish Americans on this side of the pond is also rooted in that same tortured relationship, as these folks chose immigration to America rather than live under England. The consequences of all this fascinating history is with us today, and most of us today can see the difference between the English, Welsh, Scots and Irish. Centuries of living under the same government have given these groups some things in common no doubt, but arguing that they are essentially the same is just plain incorrect.
Location: Northern Ireland and temporarily England
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Well a load of old tosh. If these countries hold their respective 'native' populations then why are there large numbers of people with different ancestries within them?
I imagine the British don't think much if anything about it now. It's old water under the bridge. I doubt the UK views America the same way as it views the other former colonies just as I doubt the other former colonies view America the same way as they view each other. Speaking metaphorically - They are blood and America is water. Blood is thicker than water.
A colony is like a child, the offspring of a parent nation. Canada, Australia and New Zealand for example? Think of them (metaphorically again) as being like children related by blood to each other through mother England and are still members of a big family. Those colonies didn't gain their independence through war. They gained independence peacefully, patiently and through a natural progression of growth and maturity. Just like children who grow up and reach adulthood and leave their parent's home to strike out independently to create lives of their own while still maintaining friendly ties and still retaining membership in the family, with the parent being the symbolic head of the family.
USA is different because it gained it's independence through making war against it's parent. It ran away from home. It even went to war against one of its ex-siblings in the 1800's. It was the black sheep of the family that disowned and cast itself off from the family violently and when it did that it ceased to be a child of the parent and no longer a relative to the other sibling colonies - no longer a member of the bigger family. So the parent (England) and the rest of the children (the former colonies and other members of the 54 Commonwealth Nations) can't ever again view the black sheep who disowned itself from the family the same way as they view each other. Even though eventually the black sheep realized it still needed them for various reasons and became on more agreeable terms with them again. It's just not the same.
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That's pretty hyperbolic and subjective. The US is comprised of a federation of former English/British colonies. Simple as that. As far as all this blood and water crap, I think the relationship as been more than repaired during the 20th Century. Side note - the US has a standing option to join the Commonwealth if it should ever choose to since it is a former British colony. It won't happen, but it is available to us.
What Americans don't seem to understand is that most Scottish, Welsh, and Irish people are still pi$$ed at England, even if it's only an emotional undercurrent. Nobody likes a bully, and for centuries England was a bully, and any of you who've seen Braveheart knows why. The English were ruthless for centuries, and Celts have long memories.
Of course, this doesn't mean that all English people are bullies, or bad, or in any other way inferior to Celts, but there's still that cultural distrust that all Celts are born into and raised with. I know I sure was -- even if it didn't really 'take.'
I must admit that it bothers me though when people call me 'British.' I am not British; I'm Scots - period. To me, it's rather like people from the States being called Canadian. I'm guessing that most U.S. citizens have nothing against Canadians in principle, but they wouldn't like to be hailed as one if they come from south of the border.
Just my thoughts.
Mahrie.
Please tell me you don't actually believe the Braveheart film is an accurate description of history!!!!!!
What Americans don't seem to understand is that most Scottish, Welsh, and Irish people are still pi$$ed at England, even if it's only an emotional undercurrent. Nobody likes a bully, and for centuries England was a bully, and any of you who've seen Braveheart knows why. The English were ruthless for centuries, and Celts have long memories.
Of course, this doesn't mean that all English people are bullies, or bad, or in any other way inferior to Celts, but there's still that cultural distrust that all Celts are born into and raised with. I know I sure was -- even if it didn't really 'take.'
I must admit that it bothers me though when people call me 'British.' I am not British; I'm Scots - period. To me, it's rather like people from the States being called Canadian. I'm guessing that most U.S. citizens have nothing against Canadians in hprinciple, but they wouldn't like to be hailed as one if they come from south of the border.
Just my thoughts.
Mahrie.
When you say England was a bully, what exactly do you mean? Did England subjected the Scottish/Irish/Welsh civilian population through a or various traumatic events for centuries? If so, the undercurrent of dislike towards England and the English may not really be the result of upbringing or nuture. It could very well be in the genes.
"It can affect mood, behavior; it can affect lots of things".
Lastly, the Americans/Canadians example isn't really comparable with this situation for the sole reason that the US and Canada are two countries while England, Wales, Scotland, and at least Northern Ireland are one country. Also Canadians have never been ruthless towards Americans and the same is true in vice versa.
With that said, Canadians are more likely to feel uncomfortable if they are confused for Americans than the other way around. This might have to do with the fact that the US overshadows Canada on most things, so in other countries the US first comes to mind when they notice cultural traits similar to those of Canadians/Americans. Canada may be brought up as an after thought, if at all. Many Canadians are not too happy how the US omnipresence in the international arena effectively makes Canadian society almost invisible for most of the world.
I must admit that it bothers me though when people call me 'British.' I am not British; I'm Scots - period. To me, it's rather like people from the States being called Canadian. I'm guessing that most U.S. citizens have nothing against Canadians in principle, but they wouldn't like to be hailed as one if they come from south of the border.
Just my thoughts.
Mahrie.
What an odd comparison.
It's more like Americans being called North Americans or Quebecois being called Canadians. Your similie involving two completely independent nations is not comparable.
We (USA) are in fact a former colony and our law and culture came from UK. Due to time and differences as well as mass migration changing our culture, we are less and less like the UK. But I'm at least 50% descended from tribes originating in the UK so my culture and DNA pretty much is from the same source....that is what is retained.
Anyone who knows their history knows this is true and why its true. Wales, Scotland and Ireland all are Celtic nations, they still retain the original population that existed in the British Ilse prior to the Roman invasion. (Wales much more influenced by the Roman presence) England is completely different, it is a Germanic based culture that rose up from the invasions of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Vikings also left a deep impression upon England. This is basic history we all should know, and it explains why there is a difference between Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Im shocked anyone would dispute these facts. You are also correct about England and its history of dominating its neighbors and the effects it has had on its relations with the Celtic people of Britain. Again these are verifiable facts. We all watched the independence referendum news last year in Scotland, it is the very resentment you described that made that referendum possible. The Northern Ireland mess of the twentieth century is rooted in the tortured history between England and Ireland. The massive population of Irish Americans on this side of the pond is also rooted in that same tortured relationship, as these folks chose immigration to America rather than live under England. The consequences of all this fascinating history is with us today, and most of us today can see the difference between the English, Welsh, Scots and Irish. Centuries of living under the same government have given these groups some things in common no doubt, but arguing that they are essentially the same is just plain incorrect.
This is a good analysis. Your point regarding Irish-Americans is especially intriguing: many would argue that, for example, America's somewhat tardy entry into World Wars I and II was due in part to the chilly relationship between the US and the UK, fostered by resentment of Irish immigrants in America toward Britain.
On the other hand, there has been considerable intermingling among the Celtic and A/S cultures within the UK over the centuries. This must surely have blurred the lines a bit -- though the vehement comments within this thread would seem to suggest otherwise (at least to this American)!
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