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I know U.K. and US police cultures are very different.
Was there an event about 15 years ago where swat over there killed a female and it was a huuuge deal. Does anyone know the particular event?
In the US, many of us feel swat are complete maniacs. They break into wrong addresses, terrorize the wrong people, do illegal no knock raids, have killed innocent people, cost taxpayers millions in lawsuits, have shot their own people and by law the perp is charged with the murder, all kinds of psycho stuff. And even with all that unless it was a non white female killed no one would even bat an eye over here. And even then still possible no news would bother with it.
I know U.K. and US police cultures are very different.
Was there an event about 15 years ago where swat over there killed a female and it was a huuuge deal. Does anyone know the particular event?
In the US, many of us feel swat are complete maniacs. They break into wrong addresses, terrorize the wrong people, do illegal no knock raids, have killed innocent people, cost taxpayers millions in lawsuits, have shot their own people and by law the perp is charged with the murder, all kinds of psycho stuff. And even with all that unless it was a non white female killed no one would even bat an eye over here. And even then still possible no news would bother with it.
In 2016, five people were killed by police in the UK. In 2015, that number was three. This includes deaths from a taser.
The population of the UK is 65 million.
I think it is fair to say that there are far fewer guns in circulation in the UK and also a different attitude by the authorities to the use and acceptability of deadly force.
Here's my opinion, if you replaced all the US cops with cops from the U.K. Killings would absolutely skyrocket from the U.K. Officers. It's America, just no way around it.
If you replaced all of the cops in the U.K. With US cops they would still find a way to be killing people left and right. We have serious problems on both sides of the law over here.
On the female getting killed years ago would you have any memory of that particular one?
It bothers me some. A lot of things bother me some. Doesn't mean I'm going to leave my country over it. Especially for a country I wouldn't want live in anyway.
I know U.K. and US police cultures are very different.
Was there an event about 15 years ago where swat over there killed a female and it was a huuuge deal. Does anyone know the particular event?
In the US, many of us feel swat are complete maniacs. They break into wrong addresses, terrorize the wrong people, do illegal no knock raids, have killed innocent people, cost taxpayers millions in lawsuits, have shot their own people and by law the perp is charged with the murder, all kinds of psycho stuff. And even with all that unless it was a non white female killed no one would even bat an eye over here. And even then still possible no news would bother with it.
We don't have anything called SWAT in the UK and the vast majority of Police here are unarmed, making any real comparison difficult.
In terms of the various different specialised armed police roles in the UK you have :
Authorised Firearms Officers are the officers most often called upon, who often travel in Specialist Armed Response Vehicles (Trojan Units).
After that you have Tactical Support Teams (TST's) who support specialised units such as the Flying Squad and Specialist Crime Directorate as well as Borough Operations.
A further type of officer is the Close protection Officer (CPO) & Personal Protection Officers who guard VIP's, Royalty etc.
Officers in the Protection Commands also provide Airline and Airport Security, Diplomatic, Royalty, Parliamentary and other Specialist Protection, whilst the British Transport Police provide armed security in relation to trains, stations and the London Underground. The Police Support Units such as the Territorial Support Group in London provide an armed reserve and carry out Counter-Terrorist Patrols known as Legion Patrols, whilst the Armed Ministry of Defence Police and Civil Nuclear Constabulary guard other critical National Infrastructure.
Finally you have Specialist Firearms Officer (SFO) and Counter Terrorism Specialist Firearms Officers including Rifle/Sniper units. These officers are the most highly trained of all and train with special forces such as the SAS.
Each group of Officers is specially trained and trained to a far higher standard than the average US Police Officer, at the top end the officers are more equivalent to special forces than to US SWAT Teams. Indeed UK Special Forces (UKSF) sometimes work alongside the police in Counter Terrorism, Protection and Surveillance roles, as do other agencies such as MI5 (The Security Service), National Crime Agency etc etc.
In terms of an incident involving a womans death, I can recall no such incident, however all shootings are investigated by the Independent Police Complaints Commission rather than the police themselves. Police shooting in the UK are however extremely rare and so-called swatting is also not an issue.
Last edited by Brave New World; 06-03-2017 at 11:19 AM..
Here's my opinion, if you replaced all the US cops with cops from the U.K. Killings would absolutely skyrocket from the U.K. Officers. It's America, just no way around it.
If you replaced all of the cops in the U.K. With US cops they would still find a way to be killing people left and right. We have serious problems on both sides of the law over here.
On the female getting killed years ago would you have any memory of that particular one?
The Laws are different in both countries, as are the number of armed police, as is armed police training, as are the tactics used.
For a start the US Police are more primed to expect and react to firearms, their training is different and their organisation is also very different. There is also a good deal of difference between small local police departments and State Police Departments, whilst the police are afforded much more protection in terms of the US Supreme Court.
In 1989 the US Supreme Court deemed it constitutionally permissible for police to use deadly force when they “reasonably” perceive imminent and grave harm. State laws regulating deadly force – in the 38 states where they exist – are almost always as permissive as Supreme Court precedent allows, or more so.
In Europe, the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) which has been signed by some 47 European Countries (including the UK), makes it abundantly clear in Article 2 that the Right to Life is paramount and that to take a life must be a last resort and that force should be no more than absolutely necessary, whilst there is also a positive duty to protect life. Killings excused under America’s “reasonable belief” standards often violate Europe’s “absolute necessity” standards.
So police in Europe (including the UK) have a duty to try all means in order to de-esculate situations and to use non-lethal force for instance when someone has a knife rather than resort to firearms. Indeed far more training is aimed at de-esculation in many European countries than is apparent in the US.
I think the Link to the Article below deals with many of these points and others more thoroughly, and is indeed one of more sensible articles I have read when it comes to the different policing style in the US and Europe.
The only possible "event"that i can recall, would be the shooting of Cynthia Jarret, some 35 + years ago. I don't think the police have shot or killed any females since.
The only possible "event"that i can recall, would be the shooting of Cynthia Jarret, some 35 + years ago. I don't think the police have shot or killed any females since.
Cynthia Jarret collapsed and died of a heart attack in October 1985 when armed officers went to search the house where her son lived and wasn't shot by the police.
So it wasn't really a police shooting.
As for armed police, the police in London shot three terrorists dead within 8 minutes last night, which was a good response.
I know U.K. and US police cultures are very different.
Was there an event about 15 years ago where swat over there killed a female and it was a huuuge deal. Does anyone know the particular event?
In the US, many of us feel swat are complete maniacs. They break into wrong addresses, terrorize the wrong people, do illegal no knock raids, have killed innocent people, cost taxpayers millions in lawsuits, have shot their own people and by law the perp is charged with the murder, all kinds of psycho stuff. And even with all that unless it was a non white female killed no one would even bat an eye over here. And even then still possible no news would bother with it.
I'm not sure of the event you're referring to, however the two main incidents that I can think of was when a Brazilian man was wrongly shot and killed in a tube station during the 7/7 attacks in London thinking he was a suspect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deat...les_de_Menezes
Last nights events is one of the first times I've seen the police being praised for their vigilance and unfortunately it's usually only when something goes wrong they get the spotlight
Cynthia Jarret collapsed and died of a heart attack in October 1985 when armed officers went to search the house where her son lived and wasn't shot by the police.
So it wasn't really a police shooting.
Yes you're right, but my point still stands, it's the only incident i can recall of the death of a female during a police "SWAT" raid.
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