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I've noticed a lot of these little developments appearing all over. They seem to be really popular in commercial districts bordering suburbs. Instead of being called "strip malls" or "malls" they're now called "[noun] center" while creating the illusion of a urban environment like a theme park. Some developers even manage to throw in a few apartments on top of the buildings. Meanwhile the outer ring has a sea of parking spaces.
I get the impression that new urbanism started as an idea to create an urban environment to expand outwards or as a way for cities to start attracting people back, but it seems to have taken a whole new form. Instead of creating an environment for people to live, you simply have environments where people come to shop and that's it. A lot of new malls are taking on this form and calling themselves something other than "mall".
If urban planners are concerned about creating a liveable urban environment why not go back to traditional urban design: narrow streets, public green space, pedestrian only areas, low and mid-rise mixed use buildings etc...
Since I haven't seen much new urbanism and I suspect it comes in many forms (term probably get tossed around carelessly like a buzzword) it might make the thread more clear if you show examples (photos, description, street views) to me and probably over the posters.
First one's just designed to keep you looking around shopping longer. You park your car and then walk into the inward facing strip mall rather than parking in front of whatever building you're going to and walking in. Passing more storefronts = more possibility of sales. Maybe you linger and have an ice cream or coffee in the court yard... more possibility of sales. Basically it's just a strip mall.
New Urbanism is pretty much meaningless. It gets applied to everything under the sun. And note that narrow streets and all aren't particularly livable. Zoom out and it's pretty clear there's absolutely none chance of anyone accidentally stumbling to those place on their two feet. Livable means it works in the environs, narrow streets and no parking don't work in the environs.
First one's just designed to keep you looking around shopping longer. You park your car and then walk into the inward facing strip mall rather than parking in front of whatever building you're going to and walking in. Passing more storefronts = more possibility of sales. Maybe you linger and have an ice cream or coffee in the court yard... more possibility of sales. Basically it's just a strip mall.
New Urbanism is pretty much meaningless. It gets applied to everything under the sun. And note that narrow streets and all aren't particularly livable. Zoom out and it's pretty clear there's absolutely none chance of anyone accidentally stumbling to those place on their two feet. Livable means it works in the environs, narrow streets and no parking don't work in the environs.
1). Yeah I understand that. Which is what I mean when I say that the term has probably transformed from what was originally envisioned. In suburban areas it just means neo-strip mall. It is two story in some parts for people or businesses to rent out. It's overpriced though so they're vacant. That brings me to something else that I forgot to mention earlier: that strip malls, unlike livable environments, have a certain life expectancy. Before that place existed, it was an old mall that barely saw any traffic. I imagine in a decade or two both places will be the same way with vacant stores and an even emptier parking lot
The second image I linked is the efforts of the city to try and create a city core, but the corridor is full of strip malls and there's virtually no development. The area has the population to be considered a city, but it consists of suburbs where the people are vocal against light rail development that could lead to TOD. So the end result is the tallest building in the state which happens to be a hotel.
2). Yes I agree. I see it applied to everything now lol. And yeah, the area is car centric, what they're doing in both areas is keeping up the tradition. Suppose the center in the second image does get more development. You still have get in a car to drive to your next destination if it isn't readily available since the broad intersections and huge parking lots aren't inviting for pedestrians. I don't understand the second point you're making. A lot of older cities in the US have narrow one way streets in a livable environment. Europe & Japan has more even narrower streets in urban areas. They were intentionally designed that way to make using a large car stressful to drive in, not have to install safety lights on every corner, make cars slow down, and make them safe for pedestrians to be around. Hard to access parking creates a livable environment as well since there's more room for mixed use buildings and green space, takes cars off the road so people will want to use public transportation. Unless you meant it doesn't work in that particular environment then I understand what you're staying.
Since I haven't seen much new urbanism and I suspect it comes in many forms (term probably get tossed around carelessly like a buzzword) it might make the thread more clear if you show examples (photos, description, street views) to me and probably over the posters.
It's basically an open air mall you can drive through. But, because they are suburban designed, they still have seas of parking lots outside of them.
It's trendy now to put the city in the suburbs. But...well, nevermind...
That's more like it... but it's an exurban suburban tract trying to pull off a pre-car village.... sort of. Doesn't work. Cities are reflections of how we live our lives. We don't live in an age where the cobbler makes your shoes and lives above his shop. The modern day equivalent is a Chinese sweatshop churning out Nike's sold at Foot Locker. A single Foot Locker sells a lot more shoes than a single cobbler could make in a year. Thus we need fewer modern-day Foot Locker stores than we needed cobblers. The average Foot Locker, just the last step in a lengthy supply chain is 2400 square feet, the average cobblers shop was not. It also targets $500 per square foot in sales, or about $1.2 million. I have serious doubts that many household spends an average of $2400 a year at Foot Locker.
We don't live in an era where a village is mostly a self-contained community where a large percentage of all economic activity relevant to the community occurs within walking distance, so trying to model your exurban development after one is remarkably dumb. It might bring back nostalgic memories of a idyllic but tragically bygone era, but it's still completely stupid and irrational. Which is why it really looks nothing like said idyllic traditional village.
Strip mall. Sorry, I come from the call a spade a spade philosophy. Unlike the majority of posters, I also have no problem with strip malls. Nicer strip malls filled with higher end stores and pretty landscaping and nice outdoor seating with fountains 'n stuff... Still a strip mall though. As a practioner of the sit and do nothing while pretending to read some written words while people watching, this sort of strip mall seems an improvement to me.
@Octa - These "lifestyle centers" and New Urbanism are not necessarily the same thing.
Lifestyle centers are basically outdoor malls that try to mimic old time downtowns.
New Urbanism is an architecture and planning movement that encourages mixed-use, walkable development. They have a professional organizing body and hold a conference every year.
I'm sure lifestyle centers get their inspiration from New Urbanism, but I doubt their developers are members of the Congress for New Urbanism. Large parking lots are a no-no for New Urbanists.
Still, I think lifestyle centers are much better than strip malls in that they can be retrofitted better for future infill.
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Still a strip mall though. As a practioner of the sit and do nothing while pretending to read some written words while people watching, this sort of strip mall seems an improvement to me.
