Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Want to see local politicians go ape-$#*!? Tell the leaders of Las Vegas and Southern California that Utah is going to start taking it's full share of the Colorado River!
Or check out Las Vegas' attempt to take water from the Snake Valley. Had it gone through, there wouldn't have been a day gone by without the locals tearing holes in pipeline. They know what happened to the Owens Valley and don't intend to repeat history.
You've gotta live in a place where water is scarce to really appreciate how precious a resource it is!
Want to see local politicians go ape-$#*!? Tell the leaders of Las Vegas and Southern California that Utah is going to start taking it's full share of the Colorado River!
Or check out Las Vegas' attempt to take water from the Snake Valley. Had it gone through, there wouldn't have been a day gone by without the locals tearing holes in pipeline. They know what happened to the Owens Valley and don't intend to repeat history.
You've gotta live in a place where water is scarce to really appreciate how precious a resource it is!
What happened in Owens Valley exactly? What pop culture knows is a persistent though attractive myth, so no one seems inclined to question it. The real history is easy to look up. Southern California residents also have a much lower rate of water usage than Utahans due to mandatory restrictions and heavy conservation/recycling efforts. It's hotter in Utah so I get it, but...
What happened in Owens Valley exactly? What pop culture knows is a persistent though attractive myth, so no one seems inclined to question it. The real history is easy to look up. Southern California residents also have a much lower rate of water usage than Utahans due to mandatory restrictions and heavy conservation/recycling efforts. It's hotter in Utah so I get it, but...
Simply enough, we've got more water. The valleys are as dry as hell but the mountains get a lot of precipitation, which we take full advantage of with a large system of reservoirs, canals and pipelines.
But it does seem a bit silly... Every other Southwestern city accepts they are in a desert and plants/consumes accordingly, but here on the Wasatch Front we seem to convinced we are actually living in Missouri or Kentucky but with mountains, so we've created a lush broadleaf "forest" along with acres of bluegrass and other thirsty plants from the East and Midwest that really have no business being here.
As for Owens valley... I'm sure you won't find many residents there who prefer having so much of their water piped to LA. Huge megalopolises taking water from hundreds of miles away because their own local resources can't support their populations is patently unwise and probably morally wrong.
Simply enough, we've got more water. The valleys are as dry as hell but the mountains get a lot of precipitation, which we take full advantage of with a large system of reservoirs, canals and pipelines.
But it does seem a bit silly... Every other Southwestern city accepts they are in a desert and plants/consumes accordingly, but here on the Wasatch Front we seem to convinced we are actually living in Missouri or Kentucky but with mountains, so we've created a lush broadleaf "forest" along with acres of bluegrass and other thirsty plants from the East and Midwest that really have no business being here.
As for Owens valley... I'm sure you won't find many residents there who prefer having so much of their water piped to LA. Huge megalopolises taking water from hundreds of miles away because their own local resources can't support their populations is patently unwise and probably morally wrong.
Where I live in Southern California we have mountains too, that supply hundreds of thousands of residents with their municipal water. So I'm not morally compromised. As for the rest of SoCal, the population increased threefold since the '70s, yet overall water usage has remained the same (lower in some years). Clearly ethical policies are in place. Can we do more? Of course! But the country should know facts before it wags its collective finger at the evil-doers. Name another city that can claim this level of conservation.
Now the Owens Valley situation, for anyone who doesn't want to look it up, was not some Ewok Village visited by the Death Star as indignance imagines. The residents farmed in the north valley, not the south valley where water rights were sold, not stolen. That's why it was sold; no one could farm it. The anger came from residents who didn't have the leverage to get MORE MONEY in a deal they participated in. The shadiness was that the city officials disguised the fact they were from the city, otherwise Owens Valley residents would have demanded MORE MONEY. But the idea that they were guileless victims in a deal they pursued, so they could profit--and they did in fact profit--is the stuff of...Hollywood films.
I'm not an apologist for all the myriad issues of Los Angeles, of which there are so so many. I've seen diatribes about water and Owens Valley in other forums, recently a rather uneducated post in a San Francisco-Oakland thread, without responding. But this is the Urban Planning forum, and I feel we're obligated to discuss real issues and real history in urban planning, not morality tales.
Last edited by Bunjee; 09-03-2012 at 05:38 PM..
Reason: Wording
Want to see local politicians go ape-$#*!? Tell the leaders of Las Vegas and Southern California that Utah is going to start taking it's full share of the Colorado River!
Or check out Las Vegas' attempt to take water from the Snake Valley. Had it gone through, there wouldn't have been a day gone by without the locals tearing holes in pipeline. They know what happened to the Owens Valley and don't intend to repeat history.
You've gotta live in a place where water is scarce to really appreciate how precious a resource it is!
The Snake Valley grab is not dead. Just delayed. And they will likely get part of that water in the end. The Snake Valley's border location created the problem. The right to draw the water is otherwise clear. And note that no one else in Nevada will be able to get at that water either. I would suspect there will be problems accessing it across the border as well. If the guy first in time can't tap it who can?
This is of course the well established western water law. The first in time is the first in line. Note the same thing on the Arkansas or the Colorado. The Central Valley of California is a huge user of Colorado River water for no other reason than they used it first. And the law of the river simply set this all in concrete. I would think there are a number of upstream users who could blow the whole deal up. Likely a good outcome for Las Vegas and similar as outpointing the Central Valley on gainful purpose would certainly favor a Las Vegas over a lettuce patch.
I would also think a little free market could solve a whole lot of this. A Las Vegas is prepared to pay vastly more for an acre foot than is charged in the Central Valley. So Vegas could easily buy its needs if the commodity could be sold...What would actually happen is free market water would change the nature of the Central Valley and solve virtually all the present water problems.
The upstream states however still lurk with the ability to change the whole system. I would doubt they will ever do so though. The problem is that they can call the question...but they may not like the resulting answer. Mulroy, who captains the Las Vegas water efforts has commented that the only thing that may be worse for Las Vegas than the Law of the River would be to try and redo it.
As for Owens valley... I'm sure you won't find many residents there who prefer having so much of their water piped to LA. Huge megalopolises taking water from hundreds of miles away because their own local resources can't support their populations is patently unwise and probably morally wrong.
I'm not sure if it's unwise or immoral. American population has tended to concentrate in rather large metros, available water is elsewhere. East coast cities have done something similar. Both New York City and Boston dammed rivers in the hills (or for NYC mountains) to create large reservoirs. The construction of the Quabbin Reservoir supplying drinking water to Boston and some of its suburbs (total of 2 million people) resulted in the drowning of several small rural towns in western MA. Immoral? maybe. Neither metro is likely to have a water shortage in the future.
And there are some other wonderful examples on the other side. It is well possible that Atlanta could simply run out of water. It has no guaranteed source and Lake Lanier...a major reservoir got under 90 days supply in the recent past.
So a city either secures its supply...or risks shutting down to some degree.
In that sense Las Vegas and much of CA is in better shape.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
