Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah, I think there's going to be a revolution against RTD up here soon, though things have quieted down with the "Flatirons Flyer" (BRT for the rest of you) from Boulder-Denver.
The FF buses are quite nice, but it's definitely just a placeholder. And apparently they don't qualify as "true" BRT because they don't have special lanes the whole way to Boulder.
The FF buses are quite nice, but it's definitely just a placeholder. And apparently they don't qualify as "true" BRT because they don't have special lanes the whole way to Boulder.
It's been so long since I've driven 36 into Boulder I'm not sure how far past Superior the BRT lanes go, westbound. Certainly after the bus goes to the Table Mesa Park and Ride, it uses Boulder city streets the rest of the way to the Boulder station.
When it comes to light vs. heavy rail - it matters somewhat for capacity, I suppose, but not as much as people think. Sound Transit is planning to run 3-car trains every 4 minutes during the peak and this system has the capacity for at least 500K-600K riders per day, potentially a lot more if a second tunnel is built through the core (a vote this fall).
But I think the video below illustrates the type of system Seattle is building, or at least intending to build - notice that it's a subway station directly under a dense neighborhood outside of Downtown. Feels more like a DC or Boston or SF-type system than a Denver, Portland, San Diego light rail system:
I take the light rail for my daily commute (in Seattle). It's amazing and packed with people; it definitely gives the city a more urban feel than simply a train that hugs the freeway or runs at-grade like light rail in Denver/Portland.
When it comes to light vs. heavy rail - it matters somewhat for capacity, I suppose, but not as much as people think. Sound Transit is planning to run 3-car trains every 4 minutes during the peak and this system has the capacity for at least 500K-600K riders per day, potentially a lot more if a second tunnel is built through the core (a vote this fall).
But I think the video below illustrates the type of system Seattle is building, or at least intending to build - notice that it's a subway station directly under a dense neighborhood outside of Downtown. Feels more like a DC or Boston or SF-type system than a Denver, Portland, San Diego light rail system:
How come Denver doesn't have any underground stations? Not like they have to worry about sea level or anything...
Mostly cost - it's an order of magnitude more expensive to build a subway. But also because it's not as necessary in Denver. The bigger issue in Denver is that the rail doesn't serve most of the cool inner neighborhoods well.
Correct. My understanding is that RTD is using heavy rail trains instead of light rail for its new lines because they were built along existing railways, so they are required by law to use heavy rail. Not sure if the same is true with any of Seattle's future lines.
Also, the RTD line to Littleton is along an existing railway, but it's light rail. Maybe they changed the law since that line was built?
That is not entirely correct. The C/D Line is a light rail line and built along existing railroads. Newness doesn't have anything to do with it either. RTD is continuing to build new light rail. The R Line will be the last line to be opened and it will be a light rail line.
Most of the system is being build as it was originally planned. The one exception was the G Line which was changed from light rail to commuter rail. I suspect they made that change for two reasons. 1. It parallels planned commuter rail lines. I’m sure RTD realized that it didn’t make sense to have light rail and commuter rail lines side by side. 2. I hope they are realizing that commuter rail is a better choice for Denver. They are already having to run four car long light rail trains just to keep up with passenger loads. A four car light rail train is for all practical purposes a commuter train using light rail equipment.
In the future I think RTD will have to convert a lot of the light rail lines to commuter trains, just to keep up with demand.
Does anyone know why the RTD line to Littleton is light rail instead of commuter, if trains that follow existing tracks have to be heavy rail?
Yeah, poor planning mostly. The first light rail line was supposed to run from Downtown to the old Stapleton Airport along MLK Blvd. But there was opposition to the line from resident’s along MLK Blvd. and there was also criticism of plans to build a light rail line to a soon to be closed airport. So RTD cut the line back to run from Downing St. to the Auraria Campus. Then they decided that a light rail line running entirely on Downtown streets wouldn't be a very good demonstration of what light rail could do for Denver. They wanted to extend it some place, so they decided to build it to I-25 & Broadway. That became the central line, and was very successful. Then they extended the line south to Littleton. In short the Littleton line was build as light rail, because it was an extension of the Central light rail line.
If you want the entire history of the planning. The line was originally proposed as part of an elevated Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) system back in the early 1970s. That was supposed to connect the entire Denver Metro Area. Those plans didn’t go very far. By the early 1980s it was realized that PRT was not economically feasible, and light rail was the new thing. So they converted the PRT plans to light rail. Even the light rail plans fell through. Then in the 1990s RTD finally decided to just build the Central light rail demonstration project with surplus funds they had on hand, and then to extend it to Littleton.
How come Denver doesn't have any underground stations? Not like they have to worry about sea level or anything...
Cost mostly. It’s cheaper not to put a roof on the stations.
Then there is the “Denver weather is so great that we don’t need underground stations” crowd. Yeah, if you don’t mind waiting 15 minutes for a train in January in five degree below zero weather with a 30 mph wind blowing snow in your face.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah, if you don’t mind waiting 15 minutes for a train in January in five degree below zero weather with a 30 mph wind blowing snow in your face.
