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If suburbia is wasteful, rural areas are 10x wasteful since there is not a shred of self-sufficiency about modern rural life. It is like a mega suburb dependent on the great outside for jobs and all the necessities. Pray for plenty of oil and cheap transportation. Once those are gone humongous chunks of US landmass would become death traps.
Right. Everyone I know who lives rural commutes a couple of hours to the city for work. And those who don't are generally on public assistance. Those living off grid in total self-sufficiency is a tiny minority.
Europeans in general are highly educated and skilled. Generally the more educated you are, the less kids you will have or want to have.
The fertility differences vs education are miniscule, even more so if adjusted for religion. Poorer less educated do not have many kids either. Increasingly education is not a way out of sub par wages, so whatever differences are there, it is not much to talk about. Educated or not, everybody is saturated with status anxiety. More upwardly mobile do not breed to get a few pesos/promotions more. Poor do not breed because kids are expensive and have no economic utility while low status kids do not sooth anybody' ego. Suburban crowds engage in the mad status races with kids instead of horses. Race horses do not come up cheap.
Last edited by RememberMee; 03-13-2017 at 09:03 AM..
We're way higher than Austria, and ahead of Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland (close), France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland (close), Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Norway (close), Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland (close), and the UK (close). The only European country ahead of us is Luxembourg, a country of 543,000 people, a little smaller than Wyoming. In many European countries, the decision about college is made by the schools at age 10 or so.
I hosted a fair amount of people from Austria and Switzerland... mostly women and while they would not trade their time in the States... some were here for as long as 5 years.
Almost to the last one they all returned home when they decided to settle and start a family citing America is not the ideal place to raise a family...
The Austrians have 2 years off with pay with a new baby and the employer must keep the job open... one of the ladies had 3 children 2 years apart and her job as waiting after 6 years... they also have a lot of incentives geared to well baby and bonding time for men and women with young children...
You do need to plan as there is no such thing as running to the market nights and weekends and that goes for things like Home Depot type stores... the lowest apprentice has something more than 40 days??? of holidays and most are paid 14 paychecks annually... an extra check in August for Holiday pay and an extra for Christmas...
Everyone I know was always planning or going or coming from a vacation... lots of family time and get togethers...
Education is basically free for those with aptitude...
As said... they would not trade their single days in American for anything but family time it was always back to Switzerland or Austria...
*They enjoy parental leave because there is funding for it. A white collar professional earns less in gross income, and is taxed more, in Austria compared to the US.
*Standard holiday allowance is 25 days. Higher than most of the professional workforce in the US, but is lower than many in the US workforce who are (generally) given seniority-based allowance.
*14 paychecks does not mean one gets "extra" pay 2 times a year. It is just a re-schuffling of one's annual salary. In the same way that a person who gets paid twice a month (=24 a year) does not receive 12 "extra" checks...
A bit of a minefield to generalize "Europe" - as it covers 50+ states with cultures and practices that are broader than in the US. OTOH, the day to day way of of life in New York City is more similar to Berlin than it is to Overland Park. And a Slovakian suburb is no more exciting or exotic than one in Delaware.
It's not a continental thing. It's an urban thing.
That said, I live in the capital of Austria. Life is generally great. I enjoy walking down stairs to where my barber, tailor, doctor, dentist, banker, grocery, shoe retailer, etc, are all literally on the same street.
I don't enjoy having to fold my mirrors just to get my (already compact) car into the parking garage. I don't enjoy lugging groceries through stairs and elevators to get it inside my dwelling. I don't enjoy carrying a large set of keys opening multiple sets of doors multiple times a day to take the dog in and out. I dont enjoy using an electric grill the size of a george foreman griddle as the only permissible device to sear a steak.
We're planning a family soon, and nothing would be better than to have a private little yard. But that housing stock simply does not exist... unless one spends an extravagant amount of money.
A mid-sized city IMO is best. Be it here in the "old world" or there in the new world. But ya take the bad with the good and the good with the bad.
This is not so much because European countries are exceptionally humane, as that they are desperate for their citizens to have children and so they offer all sorts of incentives, which we haven't yet had to resort to in the US.
Some years ago, I starting working with an Austrian woman in her 30s. She mentioned her husband, so I asked if she also had children. She acted offended! "Why do Americans always ask if I have children? Americans are obsessed with having children. Austrians don't have children!"
I laughed and told her that in that case, there would soon be no Austrians. And in fact, this is exactly what has been happening in Austria and many other European countries.
Most of my German/Austrian friends have a single child... a few have two... mostly a boy and girl.
*They enjoy parental leave because there is funding for it. A white collar professional earns less in gross income, and is taxed more, in Austria compared to the US.
*Standard holiday allowance is 25 days. Higher than most of the professional workforce in the US, but is lower than many in the US workforce who are (generally) given seniority-based allowance.
*14 paychecks does not mean one gets "extra" pay 2 times a year. It is just a re-schuffling of one's annual salary. In the same way that a person who gets paid twice a month (=24 a year) does not receive 12 "extra" checks...
A bit of a minefield to generalize "Europe" - as it covers 50+ states with cultures and practices that are broader than in the US. OTOH, the day to day way of of life in New York City is more similar to Berlin than it is to Overland Park. And a Slovakian suburb is no more exciting or exotic than one in Delaware.
It's not a continental thing. It's an urban thing.
That said, I live in the capital of Austria. Life is generally great. I enjoy walking down stairs to where my barber, tailor, doctor, dentist, banker, grocery, shoe retailer, etc, are all literally on the same street.
I don't enjoy having to fold my mirrors just to get my (already compact) car into the parking garage. I don't enjoy lugging groceries through stairs and elevators to get it inside my dwelling. I don't enjoy carrying a large set of keys opening multiple sets of doors multiple times a day to take the dog in and out. I dont enjoy using an electric grill the size of a george foreman griddle as the only permissible device to sear a steak.
We're planning a family soon, and nothing would be better than to have a private little yard. But that housing stock simply does not exist... unless one spends an extravagant amount of money.
A mid-sized city IMO is best. Be it here in the "old world" or there in the new world. But ya take the bad with the good and the good with the bad.
I hear you... I stay with my friends when in Vienna... one is a Doctor and two are nurses... they actually all started in Nursing School together...
The single female Doctor has a 3 room flat in a good district... it belonged to her Grandparents so she lucked out... not large or fancy but close to everything and lots of underground shops across the street...
The two nurses share a flat... they all take great trips and last week went to London just for a two day weekend... only the Doctor has a car and it is very small... mostly just so she can visit her parents in Litschau...
My friends outside Salzburg in the Salzkammer Gut all have picture postcard homes... some passed through many generations and some built on family land... Land is everything... even 400 to 600 qm opens many doors...
I built just outside of Salzburg and was very fortunate to have been able to do so... 10 minutes to city center and 10 minutes the other way to the lake district...
Only can comment on Austria and Bavaria... can't generalize about the rest... but my Swedish friend has 41 days and comes to visit.
Austria, which guarantees workers the most time off, has a legal minimum of 22 paid vacation days and 13 paid holidays each year.
In Land Salzburg there are also additional holidays... still find it odd to see miles of trucks waiting at the border because it is Sunday or a Church Holiday and they are forbidden to drive on these days with a few limited exceptions for perishables...
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 03-13-2017 at 02:13 PM..
Most of my German/Austrian friends have a single child... a few have two... mostly a boy and girl.
Yes, the Austrian woman mentioned (three children, two years apart) was definitely an outlier.
My husband's brother in Germany has a boy and a girl. Once I asked my sister-in-law if she ever thought about having more, and she looked at me in utter disbelief and said no, never. But I live in SoCal and have three kids, and have many friends with three kids, a few with four, despite the "un-family-friendly" policies in the US.
As our population grew with no place to put more people suburbs sprang up. I understand the writer's feelings and ideally it would be nice to live in a city where you could walk everywhere but it's not realistic for most of us.
Near where I live we have a place where there are lots of shops on the first floor with condos on the second and third floors but there aren't any neighborhood butchers, flower shops, bakeries, etc. You still have to get in your car and drive to buy groceries.
Chiming in very late but it was an interesting article...
Single-use zoning: Yes please. Don't see the problem here
Not being able to walk a short distance: This is a solid point. If you can't drive, you probably aren't going to be happy in suburbia. Or maybe you are ok with getting rides
People should be able to live in huts in the backyard? Grandma can live in the garage?
No street enclosure: This is apples to oranges. The first picture is apartment living. The second is detached houses. It's two completely different types of living. You couldn't get me back in a apartment if it was free. That's just me. Did apartments for many years. I hope and pray I never have to live attached to people again.
Something about useless grass: Not sure about this one. I see lots of people using their grass. Swingsets, trampolines. You can put a pool in. A deck. A screened in porch. I see gardens.
Garbage cans at the curb isn't civilized? Say what? What is better, smelly dumpsters loaded up in city alleys. Garbage is garbage.
Standard complaint about newer houses/McMansions. Whatever. So many ugly buildings in the city too
No street life: What kind of street life does one want? I walk my dog on our sidewalk, I see all of the dog walkers, we chat. That's good enough for me.
No public transport: I rose public transportation for many years. I much prefer my own car.
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