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Old 04-18-2020, 10:42 AM
 
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We all know that Canberra was inspired by Washington DC. Both are purpose built capitals in their own federal district. Canberra was planned by an American architect, Walter Burley Griffin.

That's where the similarities end, however. Washington DC feels a lot more urban than Canberra. Much bigger, denser, and with a far better mass transit system. Canberra has only one single light rail line, and the airport is peanuts compared to D.C.. D.C. has more of a four seasons feel with regular snow and abundant rainfall, while Canberra rarely sees snow and is more semi-arid.

Admittedly, I haven't been to Australia, but I have been to D.C.

But my thesis is this: Canberra's real American counterpart is Irvine, CA. Canberra has an overwhelmingly sprawly, suburban feel. Irvine is a suburb. Both are located in a valley with hills, and both are in a temperate, rather dry, climate with hot summers and mild winters and prone to wildfires. Irvine even has lots of eucalyptus trees, planted to serve as windbreaks for orange groves.

And the analogy continues. Irvine is a planned city, like Canberra. But not a planned retirement/resort community like those in Florida or Arizona. Not a company town like Hershey, PA. No!

Both Canberra and Irvine were founded out of scratch specifically for public institutions. In Canberra's case, it was the Australian government. In Irvine's case, it was for a new University of California campus.

Prior to 1965, Irvine was completely uninhabited--save for a few farmhouses scattered willy-nilly and a military base. Then, the University of California asked for land from the Irvine Company (a farming company) to build a new school. The Irvine Company gave 1,000 acres of land to the University, and architects William Pereira and Raymond Watson were hired to plan a city surrounding the school. Originally the plan called for only 50,000 people, but later expanded to a plan for 400,000 + people. Today, Irvine has nearly 300,000 people, compared to Canberra's approximately 400,000. Irvine is the largest master-planned development in North America.

What's interesting is that originally Pereira wanted to place the university in the center of the city, and the overall plan would feature many circles and many lakes--sounds just like Walter Burley Griffin's Canberra! However, eventually the campus was relocated to the southern part of the city. There would be two parallel arterial roads that would meet at the campus and surround the campus like a necklace with the university as the pendant.

A key feature of Irvine is that it's subdivided into very distinct neighborhoods, called "villages." Each has its own theme, and is designed to be mostly self contained, most with their own shopping centers, schools and parks.

What makes Irvine unique is that it is one of very few cities in the world whose land is entirely owned by one private company, the Irvine Company. The Irvine Company evolved from a farming company to a real estate company. The Irvine Company is responsible for planning most neighborhoods, with the city government's approval.

Take a look through Turtle Rock, Irvine. The rolling, semi-arid hills, the suburban sprawl, the eucalyptus--it looks like Canberra.
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Old 04-18-2020, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Dayton OH
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I lived in Lake Forest, CA, a city neighboring the southern limits of Irvine from 2000 till the end of 2017. I pedaled my bicycle all over Irvine, a city that has hundreds of miles of bicycle lanes and separate bicycle / pedestrian paths that enable one to crisscross the entire area without a car.

Irvine is a highly controlled city, as a result of the The Irvine Company's (TIC) heavy hand in the design and development. All retail centers in the city are owned and controlled by the single owner. This means retail leasing has no competition. Almost all of the hundred or so large apartment complexes in the city are also owned by TIC. Again, very high rents, no competition. No surprise that the average household income in the city of Irvine is one of the highest in the USA, for a city of 300K population.

Irvine is actually one of the more densely populated cities of its size in the USA, even with the huge land area set aside for parks and open space. It also has a very large business and commercial zone. It is the largest employment center in Orange County (population about 3 million), and the jobs are not just tied to the University of California, the majority are in technology and finance.

Residential construction in Irvine is still ongoing, especially in the area in and near former Marine Corps Air Station El Toro, which was annexed into the city limits. Bring your bank account, the typical suburban stucco box home in a high density neighborhood is typically close to $1M. Much more for an area like the Turtle Rock village.

My great grandfather used to grow oranges just northeast of Irvine, in Tustin, from the late 1890s till the 1930s. I have a book of old photos that show many orchards and farms in Tustin and Irvine from that era. The Tustin City offices sit on land that was his orchard. It was a whole different world from how it is now.
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Old 04-19-2020, 06:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by recycled View Post
I lived in Lake Forest, CA, a city neighboring the southern limits of Irvine from 2000 till the end of 2017. I pedaled my bicycle all over Irvine, a city that has hundreds of miles of bicycle lanes and separate bicycle / pedestrian paths that enable one to crisscross the entire area without a car.

Irvine is a highly controlled city, as a result of the The Irvine Company's (TIC) heavy hand in the design and development. All retail centers in the city are owned and controlled by the single owner. This means retail leasing has no competition. Almost all of the hundred or so large apartment complexes in the city are also owned by TIC. Again, very high rents, no competition. No surprise that the average household income in the city of Irvine is one of the highest in the USA, for a city of 300K population.

Irvine is actually one of the more densely populated cities of its size in the USA, even with the huge land area set aside for parks and open space. It also has a very large business and commercial zone. It is the largest employment center in Orange County (population about 3 million), and the jobs are not just tied to the University of California, the majority are in technology and finance.

Residential construction in Irvine is still ongoing, especially in the area in and near former Marine Corps Air Station El Toro, which was annexed into the city limits. Bring your bank account, the typical suburban stucco box home in a high density neighborhood is typically close to $1M. Much more for an area like the Turtle Rock village.

My great grandfather used to grow oranges just northeast of Irvine, in Tustin, from the late 1890s till the 1930s. I have a book of old photos that show many orchards and farms in Tustin and Irvine from that era. The Tustin City offices sit on land that was his orchard. It was a whole different world from how it is now.
Well, of course I know all of the above. Irvine is my hometown.

A common criticism of Irvine is that it's too cookie cutter. True, but then again, aren't all new mass-scale residential developments cookie cutter? I could point to high rise, transit oriented residential developments in Singapore--and they're pretty cookie cutter, too.

But I'd also like to hear some Aussies, or at least those who have been to Canberra, pitch in. Both Irvine and Canberra are special in that both were purposely planned for a public institution. Canberra was inspired by D.C. but other than the fact that it's a purpose built capital in its own federal district/capital territory it really has little in common with the sheer urbanity of D.C.
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Old 04-19-2020, 07:00 PM
 
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What I have heard about Irvine is that homeowners own their home structure as well as the land beneath it down to a short depth, just enough for a slab foundation. Any land deeper than that is owned by The Irvine Company, and that was done to preserve their rights to any oil that may be discovered.

The Irvines are the most prominent of the California land baron families.
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Old 04-23-2020, 05:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
What I have heard about Irvine is that homeowners own their home structure as well as the land beneath it down to a short depth, just enough for a slab foundation. Any land deeper than that is owned by The Irvine Company, and that was done to preserve their rights to any oil that may be discovered.

The Irvines are the most prominent of the California land baron families.
OK, so far I don't see a single oil well in all of Irvine. And do you really think that the HOAs would be fine with an oil pump in their neighborhood?
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:06 PM
 
87 posts, read 60,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
We all know that Canberra was inspired by Washington DC. Both are purpose built capitals in their own federal district. Canberra was planned by an American architect, Walter Burley Griffin.

That's where the similarities end, however. Washington DC feels a lot more urban than Canberra. Much bigger, denser, and with a far better mass transit system. Canberra has only one single light rail line, and the airport is peanuts compared to D.C.. D.C. has more of a four seasons feel with regular snow and abundant rainfall, while Canberra rarely sees snow and is more semi-arid.

Admittedly, I haven't been to Australia, but I have been to D.C.

But my thesis is this: Canberra's real American counterpart is Irvine, CA. Canberra has an overwhelmingly sprawly, suburban feel. Irvine is a suburb. Both are located in a valley with hills, and both are in a temperate, rather dry, climate with hot summers and mild winters and prone to wildfires. Irvine even has lots of eucalyptus trees, planted to serve as windbreaks for orange groves.

And the analogy continues. Irvine is a planned city, like Canberra. But not a planned retirement/resort community like those in Florida or Arizona. Not a company town like Hershey, PA. No!

Both Canberra and Irvine were founded out of scratch specifically for public institutions. In Canberra's case, it was the Australian government. In Irvine's case, it was for a new University of California campus.

Prior to 1965, Irvine was completely uninhabited--save for a few farmhouses scattered willy-nilly and a military base. Then, the University of California asked for land from the Irvine Company (a farming company) to build a new school. The Irvine Company gave 1,000 acres of land to the University, and architects William Pereira and Raymond Watson were hired to plan a city surrounding the school. Originally the plan called for only 50,000 people, but later expanded to a plan for 400,000 + people. Today, Irvine has nearly 300,000 people, compared to Canberra's approximately 400,000. Irvine is the largest master-planned development in North America.

What's interesting is that originally Pereira wanted to place the university in the center of the city, and the overall plan would feature many circles and many lakes--sounds just like Walter Burley Griffin's Canberra! However, eventually the campus was relocated to the southern part of the city. There would be two parallel arterial roads that would meet at the campus and surround the campus like a necklace with the university as the pendant.

A key feature of Irvine is that it's subdivided into very distinct neighborhoods, called "villages." Each has its own theme, and is designed to be mostly self contained, most with their own shopping centers, schools and parks.

What makes Irvine unique is that it is one of very few cities in the world whose land is entirely owned by one private company, the Irvine Company. The Irvine Company evolved from a farming company to a real estate company. The Irvine Company is responsible for planning most neighborhoods, with the city government's approval.

Take a look through Turtle Rock, Irvine. The rolling, semi-arid hills, the suburban sprawl, the eucalyptus--it looks like Canberra.
Only emphasizing DC's winter sounds sort of wrong. The city has extremely humid, quite hot summers, and is a humid subtropical four seasons climate. It does get more snow in winter than Canberra, but it's also much more consistently humid.
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Dayton OH
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Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
OK, so far I don't see a single oil well in all of Irvine. And do you really think that the HOAs would be fine with an oil pump in their neighborhood?
I pedaled my bicycle all around Irvine when I lived in next-door Lake Forest CA from 2000 to 2017. No, I never saw any oil wells, but that is not to imply there is no oil below the ground. There are still active oil wells just north of Irvine in Huntington Beach, and there are offshore oil wells along the Orange County coast all the way to Long Beach. So, oil is in the area and has been pumped out of the ground in many parts of Orange County for the past century. That is part of the reason why The Irvine Company put the "mineral rights" clause into the charter for property ownership 60+ years ago, for lands that were developed from the old Irvine Ranch.
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by geriatricfairy View Post
Only emphasizing DC's winter sounds sort of wrong. The city has extremely humid, quite hot summers, and is a humid subtropical four seasons climate. It does get more snow in winter than Canberra, but it's also much more consistently humid.
Yes, Canberra's weather is very different from DC and more similar to Southern California.
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:34 PM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
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I loved Bill Bryson’s hilariously disparaging description of Canberra in his book about Australia In a Sunburned Country. It sounds bloody awful, planned to an inch of its life with absolutely no allowances for a bit of organic growth and culture, even worse than Irvine. I haven’t been but my mom had a few, months long work assignments in Australia and said it was pretty much spot on.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by T. Damon View Post
I loved Bill Bryson’s hilariously disparaging description of Canberra in his book about Australia In a Sunburned Country. It sounds bloody awful, planned to an inch of its life with absolutely no allowances for a bit of organic growth and culture, even worse than Irvine. I haven’t been but my mom had a few, months long work assignments in Australia and said it was pretty much spot on.
Really? I thought Canberra might at least be more transit friendly and walkable, given their new LRT line and some high rise condos.
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