Calif. court upholds in-state tuition for illegals (crime, live in)

[Bluefox]

I actually have a factual question about this, hopefully someone can help.

So the issue in front of the CA Supreme Court in this case was whether or not the California statute giving illegal aliens in-state tuition benefits was a violation of a federal law which denies educational benefits based on residency to illegal aliens.

So, this might be a stupid question, but why wasn't this case filed in federal court? Not that the district courts of California or the 9th Circuit are likely to rule differently, but the US Supreme Court conceivably could if it ever got there.

I just don't see how California, or any state for that matter, has a greater stake than the federal government in determining public policy with regards to immigration, which above all else is a federal issue.

Or is it more of an issue of the federal government not being able to tell a state to whom it can and cannot provide state-funded benefits, even though the recipients of those benefits do not have any legal status to be in the country? Any thoughts?

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by user_id

This is just the point, they are California residents in every respect other than that they aren't legal US residents.

There is a huge differeence between this and what is being done in AZ. AZ is attempting to limit the number of illegals, CA is encouraging them to come. No, you can not be legal in Ca and not in the country. Are you saying, as states, we can set up all our own laws and to HeLL with Fed laws?

Now, I know why Ca has the rep it has. How sad for those who live in the state that are truely law abiding citizens.


NIta

[Pretzelogik]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

"LOS ANGELES | Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:00pm EST

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The California Supreme Court on Monday upheld a state law allowing illegal immigrants to pay lower in-state tuition rates at state colleges and universities.

The unanimous decision overturns a lower-court ruling that said the law unfairly favors illegal immigrants over U.S. citizens who lived in other states and must pay much higher tuition.

(Reporting by Dan Whitcomb; Editing by Jerry Norton)"

How do you think this will affect higher learning in Ventura County? Is this unfair, considering the higher tuition rates out-of-state legal citizens have to pay to attend our colleges and universities? What about foreign students who come here legally on Student Visas for an education and have to pay higher tuitions due to their non-resident status?

Liberalism is a mental disorder and obviously all those judges have it.

[.highnlite]

Now, I know why Ca has the rep it has. How sad for those who live in the state that are truely law abiding citizens.

I suppose that anyone who considers the illegals criminals, has never driven 66 mph in a 65 mile zone, etc, etc, etc.

Liberalism is a mental disorder and obviously all those judges have i

Liberalism created America, fought a revolution against the British and the American Conservatives
Liberalism created the Constitution over the objections of the American Conservatives.
Liberalism fought the American Conservatives who broke away from the Union in order to continue owning human beings
Liberalism created our National Forests and game refuges in order to stop the rape and pillage of our natural resources by the American Conservative.
Liberalism created our National Parks to provide scenic recreation for the nation over the objections of the American Conservatives
Liberalism pulled America out of the Great Depression over the objections of the American Conservatives.
Liberalism entered, fought and won World War II over the objections of the American Conservatives.
Liberalism ended segregation over the violent opposition of the American Conservatives
Liberalism extended voting rights to all citizens over the opposition of the American Conservatives

etc., etc., etc.,

Oh, what did conservatives do? They encouraged illegal immigration from south of the border to provide low cost labor.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

I suppose that anyone who considers the illegals criminals, has never driven 66 mph in a 65 mile zone, etc, etc, etc.



Liberalism created America, fought a revolution against the British and the American Conservatives
Liberalism created the Constitution over the objections of the American Conservatives.
Liberalism fought the American Conservatives who broke away from the Union in order to continue owning human beings
Liberalism created our National Forests and game refuges in order to stop the rape and pillage of our natural resources by the American Conservative.
Liberalism created our National Parks to provide scenic recreation for the nation over the objections of the American Conservatives
Liberalism pulled America out of the Great Depression over the objections of the American Conservatives.
Liberalism entered, fought and won World War II over the objections of the American Conservatives.
Liberalism ended segregation over the violent opposition of the American Conservatives
Liberalism extended voting rights to all citizens over the opposition of the American Conservatives

etc., etc., etc.,

Oh, what did conservatives do? They encouraged illegal immigration from south of the border to provide low cost labor.

Huge difference, driving 1 mile over the speed limit and living in a country illegally. As for your crap about liberalism, care to tell us where you are betting this information other than out of your head???/

NIta

[.highnlite]

Huge difference, driving 1 mile over the speed limit and living in a country illegally

So, for you there are degrees of lawbreaking? Some are ok, some aren't. You could rearrange a thousand years of jurisprudence with that theory.

As for your crap about liberalism, care to tell us where you are betting this information other than out of your head???/

Find where I am wrong. You can't, but the effort could change your life. You can call it crap, but, that indicates your level of knowledge, sorry, some times facts get in the way of beliefs.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

So, for you there are degrees of lawbreaking? Some are ok, some aren't. You could rearrange a thousand years of jurisprudence with that theory.




Find where I am wrong. You can't, but the effort could change your life. You can call it crap, but, that indicates your level of knowledge, sorry, some times facts get in the way of beliefs.

i can take almost every example you gave and turn it around. Your examples are opinion which is fine. We live in a free world, but opinion isn't the same as fact. Not a single one of your examples are fact, they are your ideas and that of some others as well.

As for laws being broken, you know only too well there is a difference between people driving a few miles over the speed limit and entering the country illegally.

I have a feeling my level of knowledge, by the way, is every bit as high as yours, maybe even a little higher.

Nita

[user_id]

Originally Posted by nmnita

There is a huge differeence between this and what is being done in AZ. AZ is attempting to limit the number of illegals, CA is encouraging them to come. No, you can not be legal in Ca and not in the country. Are you saying, as states, we can set up all our own laws and to HeLL with Fed laws?

Huh? I explicitly stated that AZ and CA are on opposites sides, but both states are essentially trying to overstep the fed. Also, I never stated they are "legal in CA", rather I stated they are residents in every respect other than their federal immigration status.

And yes, I think that states should have more power to deal with immigration issues. This country has long debated the issue of federal vs state power, I'm not sure why you are trying to imply the idea is so odd. Federal immigration policy isn't working, and its unclear what sort of policies would work across the country, the needs of California are a lot different than say Ohio.

Anyhow, this ruling really doesn't create big incentives to come to California illegally, although the people in this thread continuously misrepresent matters, the reality is that you can't just run across the border and then get in-state tuition, it pretty much only applies to kids that went to high-school here. The requirements to get in-state tuition for legals is actually a lot less, again contrary to what is being suggested here.

Since when does America punish kids for the faults of their parents? Should all the kids of parents that committed criminal acts be punished or is it just for the case of illegal immigration?

Originally Posted by nmnita

Now, I know why Ca has the rep it has. How sad for those who live in the state that are truely law abiding citizens.

As a Californian I'm not concerned, whatsoever, with the opinion of Middle-America.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Bluefoxwarrior

I actually have a factual question about this, hopefully someone can help.

So the issue in front of the CA Supreme Court in this case was whether or not the California statute giving illegal aliens in-state tuition benefits was a violation of a federal law which denies educational benefits based on residency to illegal aliens.

So, this might be a stupid question, but why wasn't this case filed in federal court? Not that the district courts of California or the 9th Circuit are likely to rule differently, but the US Supreme Court conceivably could if it ever got there.

I just don't see how California, or any state for that matter, has a greater stake than the federal government in determining public policy with regards to immigration, which above all else is a federal issue.

Or is it more of an issue of the federal government not being able to tell a state to whom it can and cannot provide state-funded benefits, even though the recipients of those benefits do not have any legal status to be in the country? Any thoughts?

Well, here is what I know based on rental laws....

A leasing agent is not allowed to rent to an illegal immigrant, BUT, the leasing agent is also prohibited from asking for proof of legal residency because to do so could be considered discriminatory under Fair Housing laws. If an illegal immigrant shows adequate proof of a "legal" source of income a property owner is often stuck with renting to them, unless they can find other compelling reasons not to, such as bad credit or an inability to verify their identity.

Many people in CA have complained about the unfairness of AZ's SB1070, without realizing that CA's illegal immigration laws are just as strict...


Section 834b of the California Penal Code that deals with immigration law enforcement at the local level...

(a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws. (b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the following: (1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status. (2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or leave the United States. (3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal status and provide any additional information that may be requested by any other public entity. (c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city, county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly prohibited.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by nmnita

As for laws being broken, you know only too well there is a difference between people driving a few miles over the speed limit and entering the country illegally.

Nita

I agree. Illegally entering a country is equal to leading an invasion. Its a blatant disregard and disrespectful behavior towards the legal citizen of a country and their laws. These illegals march in the streets demanding their "rights" as law abiding citizens of the United States, yet their very presence here shows just how UN-law abiding they actually are. I wonder what these illegals would say if we just waltzed through their front doors without being invited, and made ourselves at home at THEIR expense?

California needs to stop pampering illegals and start helping those who are legal, law abiding citizens. We have a huge problem in our inner-cities where legal Hispanics, blacks, whites, Asians, etc... are struggling for a way out of the ghetto/barrio/slurbs, but the lack of adequate education is hindering their progress. Lets give low tuition fees to these students instead of to illegals. Lets invest in our OWN children and give them back the hope of the American Dream. We also need to encourage more integration and community cohesion. Take away lables like "African-American" or "Mexican-American" and instead refer to all legal citizens simply as AMERICANS. The labels only help to cause division between races. Education of America's youth, the elimination of gangs, lower crime in poorer areas and more community support would go a long way to improve relations between ALL Americans. I wonder how many legal Latino's are also feeling that the lower tuition rates for illegals are unfair? We ALL suffer from this sort of favortism, not just white Americans, but ALL legal Americans, no matter what your color or race.