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We get hot tropical like summers, and don't look at all subtropical in winter and in fact really look very similar to the inland South in winter. Do you consider coastal DE subtropical? A place should look and feel subtropical in winter don't you think? Not just feel, but also look is the key?
People tend to focus on the variations within an average winter, but you also have to look at just how varied it can be from one winter to the next. If a person got off a plane in Atlanta in 2014, 2015, or 2010 they wouldn't think they were in a subtropical climate even if they stayed the whole month. In Atlanta Jan 2014 had an avg high/low of 48/26F, and Feb 2015 was 50/31F. Jan 2014 had three days not go above 32F, and a night with a low of 6F. Feb 2015 had an ice day. Jan 2014 there wasn't really that much different than Philly this winter except we had a warmer winter min temp. Portland, OR has a warmer mean temp than that.
It is the fact that some winters there are very cold such that winter mean temps are way off the average. If you were to visit in one of those winters I doubt you would think you landed in a subtropical climate.
You're focusing on "tropical" far too much. All subtropical means is a transition from tropical to continental, just as subarctic is the opposite (continental to polar). Funny how you guys get all hung up on a climate that averages like three nights below freezing a year, or even one that averages like 35 (less than ten percent of the year) but is obviously warm/hot the majority of the year (note: I was speaking about Tallahassee and Orlando, not sure why brought up Atlanta or Coastal DE) being called subtropical, but don't bat an eyelash at a place like Yakutsk being called subarctic with an average high of 25 C in July.
You seriously think someone from a true continental place like Minneapolis would fly to Atlanta or even Nashville in January and think they're in the same climate? I don't think so. Does Atlanta have snow on the ground more often than not, or snow cover for months? Not even close.
I'm not sure what you guys expect out of subtropical climates. Average highs in the 80s in winter?
All Atlanta is is a subtropical climate with continental influences because, well, it's attached to a giant continent.
You're focusing on "tropical" far too much. All subtropical means is a transition from tropical to continental, just as subarctic is the opposite (continental to polar). Funny how you guys get all hung up on a climate that averages like three nights below freezing a year, or even one that averages like 35 (less than ten percent of the year) but is obviously warm/hot the majority of the year (note: I was speaking about Tallahassee and Orlando, not sure why brought up Atlanta or Coastal DE) being called subtropical, but don't bat an eyelash at a place like Yakutsk being called subarctic with an average high of 25 C in July.
You seriously think someone from a true continental place like Minneapolis would fly to Atlanta or even Nashville in January and think they're in the same climate? I don't think so. Does Atlanta have snow on the ground more often than not, or snow cover for months? Not even close.
I'm not sure what you guys expect out of subtropical climates. Average highs in the 80s in winter?
All Atlanta is is a subtropical climate with continental influences because, well, it's attached to a giant continent.
You make a good point, but I think we all come to this discussion with biases. I guess based on being a kid and reading in my Encyclopedia Britannica all about subtropical climates, they tend to focus on subtropical climates that have mild to non winters. The South is not one of those types.
This from Encylopedia Britannica:
The coldest month is usually quite mild (5–12 °C [41–54 °F]), although frosts are not uncommon, and winter precipitation is derived primarily from frontal cyclones along the polar front.
Notice they say "frosts" are not uncommon. They make no mention of snow or days that stay below freezing, or days and days of hard freezes. Remember, Charleston got 27 nights of hard freezes (below 28F) in 2010.
And this from Wiki for "The Subtropics":
The subtropics are geographic and climate zones located roughly between the tropic circle of latitude at 23.5 latitude (the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn) and temperate latitudes (normally temperate latitudes refer to locations north of 40 latitude).
Subtropical climates are often characterized by warm to hot summers and cool to mild winters with infrequent frost. Most subtropical climates fall into two basic types: 1) Humid Subtropical, where rainfall is often concentrated in the warmest months (for example Brisbane, Australia or Jacksonville, Florida) and 2) Dry summer (or Mediterranean) where seasonal rainfall is concentrated in the cooler months (for example Naples, Italy or Los Angeles, CA).
Subtropical climates can occur at high elevations within the tropics, such as in the southern end of the Mexican Plateau and in Vietnam and Taiwan. Six climate classifications use the term to help define the various temperature and precipitation regimes for the planet Earth. Eight months of the year within the subtropics have an average temperature at or above 10 °C (50.0 °F), with their coldest month averaging between 2 and 13 °C (35.6 and 55.4 °F).
A great portion of the world's deserts are located within the subtropics, due to the development of the subtropical ridge. Within savanna regimes in the subtropics, a wet season is seen annually during the summer, which is when most of the yearly rainfall falls. Within Mediterranean climate regimes, the wet season occurs during the winter. Areas bordering warm oceans are prone to locally heavy rainfall from tropical cyclones, which can contribute a significant percentage of the annual rainfall. Plants such as date palms, citrus, mango, lychee, and avocado are grown within the subtropics. Tree ferns and sequoia also grow within subtropical climate regimes
The Wiki article claims the Subtropics only get infrequent frosts. The vast majority of people the world over view a subtropical climate more in the vein of Sydney, Australia or Buenos Aires than they do Jackson, MS or Atlanta. As shown above, the last bolded statement just doesn't apply to the US South except deep southern Texas and S. Florida. There are no mangoes growing down there or citrus, or date palms once you get off the thin coastal strip.
I guess my big issue is with the areas just outside of the coastal strip. It just does not look subtropical in winter when see nothing but leafless deciduous trees. And I think most people in the world would agree.
I think people think of subtropics as areas that can grow all sorts of things, and look very green and alive in winter. And of course the South doesn't get infrequent frosts, they get loads of them in winter. Also, the area gets multiple hard freezes, particularly the inland areas.
How do you define tropical weather?
Does it have to be 28°C+ monthly mean temperatures and lots of thunderstorms?
Classic tropical weather would be 30-34°C days, nights above 20C, and also dewpoints 20°C+, with convective rain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah!
Yes I know, but what can or cannot grow somewhere is down to the climate...
But if a plant could die from just a few hours below a certain temperature, that says very little about how the climate would actually feel to a human.
Quote:
And I'm just saying it is silly to base a climate more on what the summers are like, the entire year should factor...
Wildcat was solely metioning the summer for the climate, stating that someone from the tropics wouldn't feel any difference if they stepped of a plane in the US south during the summer, I just made the point that they could get a shock if they arrived in winter...
It is tropical for part of the year, and not tropical for another part of the year. That's one interpretation of subtropical. Then you have Sydney which has no period of true tropical weather, but lacks cold, which is another quality of tropical climates. As an inherently transitional classification, no type is objectively better than another, it depends on your priorities...
You're focusing on "tropical" far too much. All subtropical means is a transition from tropical to continental, just as subarctic is the opposite (continental to polar). Funny how you guys get all hung up on a climate that averages like three nights below freezing a year, or even one that averages like 35 (less than ten percent of the year) but is obviously warm/hot the majority of the year (note: I was speaking about Tallahassee and Orlando, not sure why brought up Atlanta or Coastal DE) being called subtropical, but don't bat an eyelash at a place like Yakutsk being called subarctic with an average high of 25 C in July.
And Yakutsk has even gotten to 101F before. What a flawed subarctic climate. When was the last time you saw trees growing in a place like Barrow or Nuuk? It just doesn't happen.
Bananas, sugarcane, citrus, bougainvillea, tropical hibiscus, etc have all been grown successfully in the South. Tom77falcons is a fool, don't listen to him, you guys.
Be more specific where these things grow why don't you? In Jackson, MS or Atlanta, GA lol?
Yep, it's a bit like saying Rhopalostylis sapida (New Zealand Nikau palm) grows & seeds in the south of the UK... When it does, but only on the Scilly Isles, they wouldn't survive a single average winter in Berkshire, Surrey or Oxfordshire...
So it's like saying the whole of the UK averages ~2000 hours of sun, when only coastal areas of central southern England and the Isle of Wight are near it.
The coastal areas/barriers of these states grow those crops.
Do they? The only areas of the US that can safely grow Mangoes are coastal California, the southern tip of Texas & central & southern Florida (& even in central Florida they may be damaged or killed by occasional freezes)... The only Mango plantation is in southern Florida...
So it's like saying the whole of the UK averages ~2000 hours of sun, when only coastal areas of central southern England and the Isle of Wight are near it.
Where? Closest I found averaged 1800 hours. All of them places on the coast.
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