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Courtesy of a few users linking to Wikipedia for China's subtropical climates, I've looked at the pages for a few and become fascinated!
What I've noticed is the following:
-Several degrees colder climate for the latitude compared to my US subtropical climate cup of tea, particularly winter. IE: Wuhan is around the same latitude as Baton Rouge but is 7.1 Celsius colder in January and 3.1 Celsius colder over the course of the year.
Subtropical US cities matching the winter and/or annual average temperature, like New Bern, are like 5 degrees further north!
-Similar record lows for the latitude despite the colder winters. IE: Wuhan's record lows are only 1.4 Celsius colder than those of Baton Rouge despite the differences in averages being so much more.
-Very cloudy most of the year, and extremely strong summer bias to precipitation.
Anyone know why these are? I have seen some users who know more about China's climates say it's because of a winter Siberian High giving cold with little deviation, and the East Asian Monsoon giving the rains and clouds, are these true?
While I don't think I will get as into it as to the Southeast US and other North American climates, I'm definitely much more fascinated by it than I expected to be. I will make climate battles and rate the climates with China's subtropical climates, and might even add some places to my current first freeze monitoring list or last freeze monitoring list for late winter-spring 2023 if I can find freeze data that gives me a good idea of which places to monitor and when!
Removed everything about plants, palms, fauna, citrus, etc, because I know pretty much NOTHING about it. But I'll take your word for all of it, and it makes sense too that 2 globally analogous regions would share that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuma
China has some benefits, particularly the east-west mountain ranges that give various locations good protection from the Siberian high - to the point that places like Chongqing, Chengdu, and parts of Fujian province have ameliorated lows and are somewhat warmer than they'd otherwise be.
Looks like you're right about this. Chongqing in particular is at the same latitude as Houston and Gainesville but only has a -1.8 Celsius record low compared to their -14 to -15 Celsius lows!
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuma
The 2008 cold and snow blast was particularly severe and destroyed a ton of citrus. Beihai also holds the record for the farthest south snow has been recorded - 21 N.
That totally blows Homestead's January 1977 out of the water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuma
Overall, cold for it's latitude without the potential for winter warmth that a lot of US climates get.
Completely agree. That's true whether it's Wuhan/Baton Rouge, or whether it's Chongqing/Gainesville (in fact, Chongqing's all time record December high is colder than Gainesville's average high at the start of the month!).
Without the potential for winter warmth US subtropical climates get is even kind of an understatement, I dare say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuma
Eastern China tends to have less seasonal lag (except for parts of Liaoning down to Shandong province), so in general, it has colder winters, colder autumns, equivalent summers, and warmer springs than the eastern US.
Makes sense. On the other hand the subtropical US has way more maritime influence than subtropical China because it has the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean, hence climates like Cape Hatteras or Dauphin Island that China doesn't really have analogues to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuma
China also just came out of a globally anomalous heatwave - it's ongoing struggle with the desertification encroaching from the west, partially due to poor agricultural practices, is kind of evocative of the Dust Bowl. It just had a Dust Bowl tier heatwave this past summer,
My Gosh, I had no idea. I can see why the desertification and poor agricultural practices don't help though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuma
when the US was pretty average to lukewarm (even receiving record August cold in regards to the Upper Midwest).
Yep. Summers like that in the US are a shame to see.
Thank you very much, that really covers all the bases.
My Gosh, I had no idea. I can see why the desertification and poor agricultural practices don't help though.
These were the temperatures for Chongqing, which has an average high of 33C in July/Aug and 28C in Sept.
After a warm July that was about 2-3C above average, including prolonged 37-40C temps in mid-July, this happened...
(daily high/low)
Jul 24: 35C/25C
Jul 25: 38C/25C
Jul 26: 39C/25C
Jul 27: 34C/25C
Jul 28: 34C/26C
Jul 29: 37C/27C
Jul 30: 38C/27C
Jul 31: 39C/29C
Aug 1: 39C/29C
Aug 2: 37C/28C
Aug 3: 39C/28C
Aug 4: 39C/28C
Aug 5: 37C/27C
Aug 6: 37C/27C
Aug 7: 39C/29C
Aug 8: 40C/29C
Aug 9: 41C/31C
Aug 10: 41C/30C
Aug 11: 40C/31C
Aug 12: 40C/30C
Aug 13: 42C/31C
Aug 14: 42C/31C
Aug 15: 42C/32C
Aug 16: 42C/32C
Aug 17: 43C/32C
Aug 18: 43C/32C
Aug 19: 42C/32C
Aug 20: 42C/32C
Aug 21: 41C/32C
Aug 22: 41C/30C
Aug 23: 42C/32C
Aug 24: 42C/32C
Aug 25: 42C/33C
Aug 26: 37C/31C
Aug 27: 40C/29C
Aug 28: 39C/28C
Aug 29: 31C/24C
Aug 30: 24C/21C
Aug 31: 22C/18C
August Average: 39C/29C
Imagine if Toronto had an average high of 34C and average low of 22C in August... That's how intense this heat was.
These were the temperatures for Chongqing, which has an average high of 33C in July/Aug and 28C in Sept.
After a warm July that was about 2-3C above average, including prolonged 37-40C temps in mid-July, this happened...
(daily high/low)
Jul 24: 35C/25C
Jul 25: 38C/25C
Jul 26: 39C/25C
Jul 27: 34C/25C
Jul 28: 34C/26C
Jul 29: 37C/27C
Jul 30: 38C/27C
Jul 31: 39C/29C
Aug 1: 39C/29C
Aug 2: 37C/28C
Aug 3: 39C/28C
Aug 4: 39C/28C
Aug 5: 37C/27C
Aug 6: 37C/27C
Aug 7: 39C/29C
Aug 8: 40C/29C
Aug 9: 41C/31C
Aug 10: 41C/30C
Aug 11: 40C/31C
Aug 12: 40C/30C
Aug 13: 42C/31C
Aug 14: 42C/31C
Aug 15: 42C/32C
Aug 16: 42C/32C
Aug 17: 43C/32C
Aug 18: 43C/32C
Aug 19: 42C/32C
Aug 20: 42C/32C
Aug 21: 41C/32C
Aug 22: 41C/30C
Aug 23: 42C/32C
Aug 24: 42C/32C
Aug 25: 42C/33C
Aug 26: 37C/31C
Aug 27: 40C/29C
Aug 28: 39C/28C
Aug 29: 31C/24C
Aug 30: 24C/21C
Aug 31: 22C/18C
August Average: 39C/29C
Imagine if Toronto had an average high of 34C and average low of 22C in August... That's how intense this heat was.
So basically a month with an average high a bit warmer than the normal monthly maximum and a low a bit warmer than the normal monthly average. That deserves another , it's absolutely 1936 Dust Bowl level.
So basically a month with an average high a bit warmer than the normal monthly maximum and a low a bit warmer than the normal monthly average. That deserves another , it's absolutely 1936 Dust Bowl level.
Apparently Chinese authorities reported the temperature as 38C every day of the heatwave to its citizens. The fact that Chinese workers are entitled to getting the day off if the temperature is warmer than 38C has nothing to do with this of course.
Removed everything about plants, palms, fauna, citrus, etc, because I know pretty much NOTHING about it. But I'll take your word for all of it, and it makes sense too that 2 globally analogous regions would share that.
Ah, yes take the word of the fake news spouting familiar new user account
Not going to write paragraphs responding to this user's bs but almost every claim this user makes is so far from the truth, it's almost comical
Chongqing is a major citrus production area and is actually home to the Citrus Research Institute of China. Chongqing along with neighboring Sichuan, Hubei, Hunan, and Jiangxi (all landlocked) produce the majority of China's oranges - not the southern coastal provinces.
Beihai has not recorded snow in recent history though there is an account of accumulating snow from 1600s. Nanning a bit further inland recorded a trace of non-accumulating snow in 1975. As for the US...better not to mention the impact of the 1895 and 1899 freezes which killed all citrus north of Ft. Lauderdale, -2F in Tallahasee, caused a bay effect blizzard in Tampa along with an icy Tampa Bay, and even brought crop-killing frost to Cuba and coastal Veracruz.
There are many more tropical derived (and/or tropical plants reaching their northern limits) plants in southern China than "bamboo"
There are more native species of palms found in China than the continental US.
- These regions most certainly do not produce the majority of China's citrus.
- These regions don't host perennial citrus farms. Significant cold protection is needed, citrus varieties and cultivars are typically cold hardy, etc...only the southern fringe of the country is capable of hosting perennial citrus farms. Acting like Hubei, Sichuan, etc have Florida-style industrial citrus farms is ridiculous. They plant multiple crops of citrus a spring to avoid having the plants fruit in the winter cold - where they will die, especially if planted in the ground.
Ah, yes take the word of the fake news spouting familiar new user account
Not going to write paragraphs responding to this user's bs but almost every claim this user makes is so far from the truth, it's almost comical
Chongqing is a major citrus production area and is actually home to the Citrus Research Institute of China. Chongqing along with neighboring Sichuan, Hubei, Hunan, and Jiangxi (all landlocked) produce the majority of China's oranges - not the southern coastal provinces.
Beihai has not recorded snow in recent history though there is an account of accumulating snow from 1600s. Nanning a bit further inland recorded a trace of non-accumulating snow in 1975. As for the US...better not to mention the impact of the 1895 and 1899 freezes which killed all citrus north of Ft. Lauderdale, -2F in Tallahasee, caused a bay effect blizzard in Tampa along with an icy Tampa Bay, and even brought crop-killing frost to Cuba and coastal Veracruz.
There are many more tropical derived (and/or tropical plants reaching their northern limits) plants in southern China than "bamboo"
There are more native species of palms found in China than the continental US.
That comment seems pretty legitimate to me, why would it be fake news?
I'll let them and you settle this because of course I don't know enough to.
As for the cold winters for latitude compared to the US, I just found an even more extreme example. OMG!
Ganzhou is at the same latitude as Fort Lauderdale and at a low elevation but has winters 12 Celsius colder, to match those winters you'd need to go almost 9 degrees further north to Wilmington! These winters also make it a good quintessential subtropical climate - at the very end of the subtropical latitudes. I'm speechless, unless maybe this isn't the biggest latitude for latitude difference that exists with the US?
China winters averages are really impressive. I used to to think US east coast cities were very cold for the latitude but China is on another level. Record lows may not be so impressive in China but the averages are just unbelievable. Cities below 30⁰ latitude with solid winter weather, constantly cool/cold almost all the time. Shanghai is at a latitude similar to Jacksonville, Florida, and the January average is 2.1⁰C / 8.1⁰C with a record high of only 22.1⁰C. In Jacksonville the average is 6.1⁰C / 18.6⁰C with a record high of 29⁰C in comparison.
Maybe people don't usually realize how cold China can be in the subtropical part of the country because of not being so snowy? Winters there are mostly dry so maybe it can be snowier in Alabama and Georgia than in the chinese cities sometimes. People tend to associate cold with snow.
However, Shanghai actually has an average of 6.2 days of snowfall according to Wikipedia. That's far from irrelevant. Remember the latitude is comparable with Jacksonville.
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. I will make climate battles and rate the climates with China's subtropical climates, and might even add some places to my current first freeze monitoring list or last freeze monitoring list for late winter-spring 2023 if I can find freeze data that gives me a good idea of which places to monitor and when!
. Summers like that in the US are a shame to see.
, unless maybe this isn't the biggest latitude for latitude difference that exists with the US?